Were the Illyrians Greeks?

Originally posted by boreans   One of the Dardanian largest tribes was called CHELIDONES, the same as a greek tribe in the heart of Hellas, Peloponnesus. What do you call this?

You already have plenty of evidence on this page showing they belong to a different culture. Now can you show us a reference on the Chelidones? I have never encountered a tribe named so. Besides, even if i'm missing something, Chelidones are the "snailmen".


Edited by Flipper - 26-Feb-2008 at 08:04

Originally posted by Vorian Ok, Illyrians and Greeks . . They were completely different people.

Originally posted by boreans It has been noticed many similitarities betwen Greeks and Illyrians, the persons names, the places names, the tribes names and too many other things. Were the Illyrians same as Greeks? or were they similar races? Its imposible to find any inscription written in Illyrian language, everything is in Greek. What makes an Illyrian different from a Greek? I am not a historian, so I would be pleased knowing something elegant about this? Thank you.

First I should say that i have only heard this theory before, by Greeks from Albania who seem to be a bit more romantic and passionate about ancient Greek theories. Personally i do not believe this and i will clarify why.

1. The Illyrians belong to a material culture called Halstat, which is different from Greek.

2. Their arrival is estimated between 1300-1000BC when they reached the borders of the Greek world. Before that the people living in Illyricum were Vucedols.

3. The ancient Greek authors give detailed information about the Illyrians. Skylax seems to deal with their tribes giving a possible ethnic characterization to them as "Illyrians". The Greek cities in Illyricum are characterized as "Hellenic" while the neighbouring Illyrian tribes are labeled "Illyrian".

4. The reason why you find Greek inscriptions in Illyria are because the presence of Greeks there. The places you find the inscriptions are in the previously Greek colonies. King Menounios, was the first king to print greek inscribed coines for the Greek cities of Illyria, for obvious reasons. All inscriptions in non Greek cities are late and have usually Latin text as well. The Greeks were litterate way before the appearance of Greek inscriptions in Illyria, so the delay does not signify a fast transmition of the alphabet as it was between the other Greeks. The Greek cononists of Marseille could write in Greek, so why wouldn't the Illyrians if they were Greek.

5. There are place names and some other words surviving which signify a language that does not belong in the same group of Greek. Note that translators were used between Greeks and Illyrians.

6. The ancient Greek geographers set the Hellenic border at Orichos which means that over that city there's no continious Greek population.


Edited by Flipper - 17-Feb-2008 at 18:17

Ok, Illyrians and Greeks were Indo-European people. That's their only similarity. They were completely different people. Later on, Illyrians were influenced by Greek culture but not much.

As for inscriptions they were tribes, they didn't have literature or an alphabet.

As for the names, it's cause ancient Greeks had the habit of hellenising foreign names. Xerxes for example was really called Khashayarsha  and Darius, Dārayavahu�.

Now if you don't know Greek it will probably sound similar. I mean, Idaspis sounds Greek but it's just the change version of a Persian name.


Edited by Vorian - 16-Feb-2008 at 15:50