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Elanjie
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Topic: Goguri, Korean or Chinese? Posted: 09-Feb-2005 at 21:58 |
nice view,ruins in china of Goguri
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MengTzu
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Posted: 09-Feb-2005 at 13:58 |
Originally posted by coolstorm
"It's obvious that China is trying to redefine their national identity in view of the muti-ethnic society within itself. "
Wrong and hopelessly wrong.
China does not need to claim Goguri to fulfill that purpose for the complexity of its population made up.
That's why I said it's beyond some people's understanding. |
Do you understand it then? If you do, can you explain it?
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coolstorm
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Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 23:31 |
"In my opinion, Goguryeo became "officially" a part of the Korean spectrum of history when Samguk Yusa was written during the Goryeo dynasty. That's officially...it has always been in the back of people's minds though as the Goryeo dynasty itself was founded in an attempt to revive Goguryeo...hence the name....Goryeo started out as "Hugoguryeo", meaning later Goguryeo. "
Very good, and it makes a lot of sense.
That's also why Taiwan is part of China, and China claims Taiwan.
So, before anyone says anything about Taiwan, please do consider how we feel.
Else you shouldn't blame us for doing the same thing to you.
^_^
Edited by coolstorm
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Gubook Janggoon
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Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 22:01 |
Originally posted by coolstorm
"It's obvious that China is trying to redefine their national identity in view of the muti-ethnic society within itself. "
Wrong and hopelessly wrong.
China does not need to claim Goguri to fulfill that purpose for the complexity of its population made up.
That's why I said it's beyond some people's understanding.
I am still waiting for someone to give me an answer to why korean people claim goguri. |
Dude..I already tried to explain that...I even adressed it to you! ...that is unless you have decided to ignore me... ...but I know good 'ol coolstorm would never do that!
Hm...I'll just repost what I posted for you.
Koreans see Goguryeo as one of the "Founding Fathers", if you will, of
Korea and Koreans themselves...however distorted that view may
be.
In my opinion, Goguryeo became "officially" a part of the Korean
spectrum of history when Samguk Yusa was written during the Goryeo
dynasty. That's officially...it has always been in the back of
people's minds though as the Goryeo dynasty itself was founded in an
attempt to revive Goguryeo...hence the name....Goryeo started out as
"Hugoguryeo", meaning later Goguryeo.
Why does the PRC claiming Goguryeo as a part of Chinese history seem a
bit strange? Most, if not all, chinese texts describe Goguryeo as
a state outside of the middle kingdom...and as a barbarian state...if
that means anything...
Hope I made that clearer to you Coolstorm!
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Edited by Gubukjanggoon
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coolstorm
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Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 21:57 |
"It's obvious that China is trying to redefine their national identity in view of the muti-ethnic society within itself. "
Wrong and hopelessly wrong.
China does not need to claim Goguri to fulfill that purpose for the complexity of its population made up.
That's why I said it's beyond some people's understanding.
I am still waiting for someone to give me an answer to why korean people claim goguri.
Edited by coolstorm
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MengTzu
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Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 18:27 |
Originally posted by coolstorm
Do you really think PRC claims Goguri because of immaturity and old reaons? Hopelessly wrong. |
No, I don't believe that the PRC made such claims because of immaturity and old reasons. I made it clear that I believe that they made such claims as solutions to issues of race and ethnicity. Please don't quote me out of context.
They do it for some very good reasons beyond many's understanding. |
These reasons are actually not too dificult to understand. It's obvious that China is trying to redefine their national identity in view of the muti-ethnic society within itself. National identity shifts require historical shifts as well. I never said this is a bad reason, only that their conclusions are problematic.
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MengTzu
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Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 18:27 |
I think I've written about this so many times that you're probably sick of my repeating myself. Koguryo is important to the traditional Korean view and this new PRC view, because it serves as a symbol of national identity. For the Koreans, as you said, it represents the founding of the Korean people, for the PRC, it resolves the problem of "what is a Chinese." Whether PRC is trying to create a greater, broader Chinese identity for the sake of expansionist conquest is arguable: but the fact that Chinese identity has expanded and evolved is undeniable. The most simple solution here is to "share" Koguryo's legacy, and it is not only simple, but realistic.
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MengTzu
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Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 18:22 |
Originally posted by coolstorm
Do you really think PRC claims Goguri because of immaturity and old reaons? Hopelessly wrong. |
No, I don't believe that the PRC made such claims because of immaturity and old reasons. I made it clear that I believe that they made such claims as solutions to issues of race and ethnicity. Please don't quote me out of context.
They do it for some very good reasons beyond many's understanding. |
These reasons are actually not too dificult to understand. It's obvious that China is trying to redefine their national identity in view of the muti-ethnic society within itself. National identity shifts require historical shifts as well. I never said this is a bad reason, only that their conclusions are problematic.
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Gubook Janggoon
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Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 18:01 |
Originally posted by coolstorm
"It's not so much "distortion" as
"redefinition." By all account "nations" don't exist except in
the minds of the people. What the Chinese gov't doing is
interpretative shift -- reconstructing historical categorization.
The political agenda is clear, though this doesn't mean it was an
act of intentional deception. It is a solution of resolving the
issue of race and ethnicity within China. To us academics,
however, such an interpretative shift has absolutely no relevance upon
the facticity of the Koguryo state."
Do you really think PRC claims Goguri because of immaturity
and old reaons? Hopelessly wrong. They do it for some very good
reasons beyond many's understanding.
Again, I would like to know why Korean people claim Goguri. Please
give me an answer to that and I will have something to say regarding it
later on. |
Koreans see Goguryeo as one of the "Founding Fathers", if you will, of
Korea and Koreans themselves...however distorted that view may
be.
In my opinion, Goguryeo became "officially" a part of the Korean
spectrum of history when Samguk Yusa was written during the Goryeo
dynasty. That's officially...it has always been in the back of
people's minds though as the Goryeo dynasty itself was founded in an
attempt to revive Goguryeo...hence the name....Goryeo started out as
"Hugoguryeo", meaning later Goguryeo.
Why does the PRC claiming Goguryeo as a part of Chinese history seem a
bit strange? Most, if not all, chinese texts describe Goguryeo as
a state outside of the middle kingdom...and as a barbarian state...if
that means anything...
Hope I made that clearer to you Coolstorm!
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coolstorm
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Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 17:05 |
"It's not so much "distortion" as "redefinition." By all account "nations" don't exist except in the minds of the people. What the Chinese gov't doing is interpretative shift -- reconstructing historical categorization.
The political agenda is clear, though this doesn't mean it was an act of intentional deception. It is a solution of resolving the issue of race and ethnicity within China. To us academics, however, such an interpretative shift has absolutely no relevance upon the facticity of the Koguryo state."
Do you really think PRC claims Goguri because of immaturity and old reaons? Hopelessly wrong. They do it for some very good reasons beyond many's understanding.
Again, I would like to know why Korean people claim Goguri. Please give me an answer to that and I will have something to say regarding it later on.
Edited by coolstorm
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MengTzu
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Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 15:45 |
Originally posted by coolstorm
why do korean people claim goguri? |
Why does PRC claim Koguryo?
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MengTzu
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Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 15:41 |
Originally posted by Mystic
I think it's stupid that the Chinese gov't is making up distortions that an ancient Korean kingdom was part of their civilization. It's immature and false. I think people should stop trying to claim each other as their own. Just recently I read an article claiming that black people founded the Xia dynasty. Funny thing is there are both White and Korean nationalists who also make up claims that they founded Chinese civilization. How is any of this rubbish valid? It's all silly immature ultra nationalist BS. Bottom line is Koguryo was NOT a Chinese kingdom any more than the Jurchen Jin dynasty descended from Koreans anymore than whites or blacks founding Chinese civilization. It's all pathetic pointless bickering. |
It's not so much "distortion" as "redefinition." By all account "nations" don't exist except in the minds of the people. What the Chinese gov't doing is interpretative shift -- reconstructing historical categorization.
The political agenda is clear, though this doesn't mean it was an act of intentional deception. It is a solution of resolving the issue of race and ethnicity within China. To us academics, however, such an interpretative shift has absolutely no relevance upon the facticity of the Koguryo state.
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MengTzu
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Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 15:36 |
Originally posted by babyblue
and how do you know it's 10 %? |
As a matter of fact, how do you HAVE 10%? Sorry if my math is wrong, but I thot the percentage is always in the powers of 1/2 (like 1, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, etc.) You know what I mean?
Edited by MengTzu
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coolstorm
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Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 11:49 |
why do korean people claim goguri?
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Mystic
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Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 07:04 |
I think it's stupid that the Chinese gov't is making up distortions
that an ancient Korean kingdom was part of their civilization. It's
immature and false. I think people should stop trying to claim each
other as their own. Just recently I read an article claiming that black
people founded the Xia dynasty. Funny thing is there are both White and
Korean nationalists who also make up claims that they founded Chinese
civilization. How is any of this rubbish valid? It's all silly immature
ultra nationalist BS. Bottom line is Koguryo was NOT a Chinese kingdom
any more than the Jurchen Jin dynasty descended from Koreans anymore
than whites or blacks founding Chinese civilization. It's all pathetic
pointless bickering.
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babyblue
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Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 05:42 |
and how do you know it's 10 %?
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Gubook Janggoon
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Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 00:33 |
Originally posted by Elanjie
i have 10% blood of Goguri, but i still think i'm chinese.
The most similiar country in history and in the future would be usa
and china, they are both made up of different race,nationality or
blood.Different culture emerged into one new continuous civilization.
The debate of this topic seems unrational. |
You have 10% Goguryeo blood?....how is it that you have Goguryeo blood?
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Elanjie
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Posted: 07-Feb-2005 at 21:07 |
i have 10% blood of Goguri, but i still think i'm chinese.
The most similiar country in history and in the future would be usa and china, they are both made up of different race,nationality or blood.Different culture emerged into one new continuous civilization.
The debate of this topic seems unrational.
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Gubook Janggoon
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Posted: 07-Feb-2005 at 17:47 |
Originally posted by coolstorm
We don't care about ancient Goguri. I bet less than 1 percent of the world population knows what it is. |
That's wonderful Coolstorn, BTW Welcome back, but we're not debating on whether people give a damn about this obscure kingdom.
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coolstorm
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Posted: 07-Feb-2005 at 14:47 |
We don't care about ancient Goguri. I bet less than 1 percent of the world population knows what it is.
Edited by coolstorm
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