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Words of Christ, lacking sources

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  Quote Worldhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Words of Christ, lacking sources
    Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 20:58
Originally posted by Komnenos

How to become a revisionist historian in two easy steps:
 
1. Take one universally accepted, well researched and documented historical phenomenon, go to the pub, and after a couple of drinks come up with a theory that claims the exact opposite to everyone else's view.
Spend a couple of hours googling and dig out some other poor soul's claims that, with some fanciful interpretation, might support your claims, the more fantastic, the better. (Amateurish attempts on  etymology and slightly racist undertones are optional at this stage.) Find some internet forum to post your claims.
2. Denounce all evidence  that might contradict your new theory as either erroneous or as deliberately falsified, preferably by some sinister global conspiracy. Portray yourself as victim of such conspiracy, especially when you're just about to be banned from said forum. Move on to the next forum. 
 
 
If quoting the original language of the bible books and providing properly referenced historical texts such as Lucan's Pharsalia is too radical and revisionist for you, then maybe it's you that needs to be looked at more closely.
 
LOL
 
 


Edited by Worldhistory - 14-Nov-2006 at 20:59
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 16:45
In Jesus's time the Sadducees still held this, but the Pharisees had developed the idea of an afterlife with reward and punishment.
 
I believe though that Joseph would have been a Sadducee, based on the visitation of the Temple Jesus experienced as a boy, and as written in the Gospel of Thomas, it says that Mary and Joseph were arranged to married in a temple. Also, I think it would explain why the Pharisees seemed to be so biased against Jesus, and why Jesus would get so offended at the "corruption at the temple incident" of the Bible.
 
Is this thought held by scholars or do they believe Joseph was a Pharisee?
 
 
edit: I had to edit this post because, when I first wrote it I confused the Sadducees with the Essenes. Embarrassed


Edited by JanusRook - 14-Nov-2006 at 16:53
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 09:32
How to become a revisionist historian in two easy steps:
 
1. Take one universally accepted, well researched and documented historical phenomenon, go to the pub, and after a couple of drinks come up with a theory that claims the exact opposite to everyone else's view.
Spend a couple of hours googling and dig out some other poor soul's claims that, with some fanciful interpretation, might support your claims, the more fantastic, the better. (Amateurish attempts on  etymology and slightly racist undertones are optional at this stage.) Find some internet forum to post your claims.
2. Denounce all evidence  that might contradict your new theory as either erroneous or as deliberately falsified, preferably by some sinister global conspiracy. Portray yourself as victim of such conspiracy, especially when you're just about to be banned from said forum. Move on to the next forum.
 
.
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 09:00
Originally posted by JanusRook

As AFAIK Judaism of the time said that a man in death lives on through his descendants, it would have been wrong of God to deny Joseph this.
 
In Jesus's time the Sadducees still held this, but the Pharisees had developed the idea of an afterlife with reward and punishment. The Sadducees saw Jesus as a Pharisaic preacher (which he probably was) and tried to expose him as such with variations on their favourite attacks on the Pharisees - such as dreaming up the 'whose wife would she be' paradox that Jesus answered by saying "they neither marry, nor are given in marriage". (Mark XII 25)
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  Quote Worldhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 23:51
Originally posted by Komnenos

Those of us living in the real world will easily recognise the transliteration from the Hebrew Yehoshua, via the Koine Greek Ιησους (IESOUS), via the Latin Iesus, to the Jesus with a J when the letter was introduced into the Vulgar Latin of the Middle ages, and now used  in most IE languages. Simple as that.
Those of us living in an alternative universe, feel free to speculate, but do it in the "Historical Amusement" section of our forum.
 
 

This is the standard text book lie often propagated and it requires one to ignore not only common sense but the basic truth.

 

Whats actually written in the Greek texts is Iyo'ous. The Latin word Iesus doesnt refer to the Yehoshua of the Asiatics and neither does the Greek Iesous. The Latin Iesus and the Greek Iesous of course refers to the Gallic deity Esus, also written as Hesus. Its just that these two words have been hijacked in modern times to describe an alternative Asiatic deity Yeho, instead of its real transliteration Esus the Gallic European deity.

 

The Hebrew-Aramaic word Yehoshua simply does not translate to either Iesous in Greek or Iesus in Latin.

 

However, the Gallic words Esus and Hesus do translate, both literally and phonetically, into the Greek Iesous and the Latin Iesus.

 

All the words Jesus, Esus, Hesus, Iesous and Iesus relate to the same ancient deity Zeus.

 

Ill conclude with an extract of an article I came across and appropriately titled:

 

Judeo-Christian Heritage is a Hoax

 

It appears there is no need to belabor the absurdity and fallacy of the "Judeo-Christian heritage" fiction, which certainly is clear to all honest theologians. That "Judeo-Christian dialogue" in this context is also absurd was well stated in the author initiative religious journal, Judaism, Winter 1966, by Rabbi Eliezar Berkowitz, chairman of the department of Jewish philosophy, at the Hebrew Theological College when he wrote: "As to dialogue in the purely theological sense, nothing could be more fruitless or pointless. Judaism is Judaism because it rejects Christianity; and Christianity is Christianity because it rejects Judaism. What is usually referred to as the Jewish-Christian traditions exists only in Christian or Secularist Fantasy."

 

Jewish-Christian traditions exists only in Christian or Secularist Fantasy

 

So true!

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  Quote Worldhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 23:49
Originally posted by JanusRook

Embarrassed Sorry not a linguist, thanks Komnenos, but it would still be Joshua wouldn't it, or did I get that wrong? I know there are other Joshua's in the Bible, does Jesus share their name or is his name different in Hebrew?
 
 

The Hebrew-Aramaic name Yehoshua will always translate to Jehoshua or to a contracted form Joshua. Never, and I repeat, never will Yehoshua translate to Jesus.

 

Anyone that tells you otherwise is simply misleading you and anyone that accepts it as such is deluding himself.

 

The word Yehoshua translates to Yehos saviour and its this Yeho part of the word which they want to hide and disguise because the worship of Yeho originates from India and not Europe.

 

Its from the root word of Yehoshua that the Jehovah Witness get their name sake Jehovah, where the modern letter J occasionally replaces the letter Y. The root word of both Yehoshua and Jehovah is Yeho and its the Indian origins of this word that needs to be understood.

 

The Jews in Hebrew-Aramaic called themselves Yehudhi or Yehudi. Note once again the Yehu (similar to Yeho) root in the designation of their title.

 

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  Quote Worldhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 23:48
Originally posted by JanusRook

Osmanli, actually English speakers shouldn't use Jesus in reference to Christ since that is his Greek name, the proper English translation would be Joshua, but I guess Joshua Christ sounds a bit mundane. (And while where at it Christ is just another Greek term too.)

And actually in spanish Jesus is pronounced more like Hay-Seuss than Yay-Seuss but then again that could have been influenced by language changes over the centuries.
 
 

Youre right, the word Jesus, with its variants Hesus and Esus, is phonetically related with Hay-Seuss - that is Hail-Zeus, and this is what they dont want you to understand. That is, genuine ancient Christians worshiped Zeus, written as Deus these days, and not any Indian deity called Yeho.

 

All Gallic-Latin languages of Western Europe such as Spanish, French, Portuguese, Galician and Italian have the words Hesus and Jesus. The word Jesus derives from a Gallic deity originally called Esus.

 

The Gallic people of Europe had a deity called Esus (Hesus) as having been shown with a lamb on one side and an elephant on the other, and that this occurred long before the introduction of Asiatic stories into Europe. Its mostly symbolic religious language where the elephant, being the largest animal known, was chosen to represent magnitude and power, while the lamb, from its innocent nature, was chosen to represent innocence. Hence we have the Lamb of Jesus. The term Lamb of Jesus, like many other terms, derives from the Gallic religion.

 

The Gallic deity Esus, from which the modern word Jesus derives, is known from an inscription dated to 14 AD where the exact date is determined by the inscription itself on the Altar of the Nautae of Paris, currently in the Cluny Museum.

 

Esus was also recorded as a Gallic deity by Lucan in his Pharsalia: and Esus whose fierce shrine makes men shudder. Lucan, Pharsalia, 1.445

 

The Gallic deity Esus is also attested in several European anthroponyms such as Esumagnius - he who is great like Esus.

 

Esus, was part of the Jupiterean triad and this is where the genuine Catholic trinity derives from. It should be clear by now that genuine Christianity derives from Europe and has nothing to do with the Asiatic testament books which make up the modern bible set of books.

 

For instance, the combined modern term Jesus Christ was never used in any of the original texts of the Bible or Talmuds - rabbinical religious texts. This invented combined term only came up after the Creed of Nicene (325 A.D) whereby the masses were later told the term meant Jesus the Saviour and that it was a direct translation from religious books preserved in the Greek language Gospels.

 

This is of course a complete lie because its well known that the Greek word for saviour is nothing like the word Christ or Kristo. The word saviour arises from the Hebrew-Aramaic word shuah or shua, (Yehoshua Yehos saviour) and not from the word Christo or Christ.

 

The word Christo derives from the Gallic Chrestus and I suggest people read Celsus On the True Doctrine, ISBN: 0195041518, for more information on the unoriginality of Christian religion as propagated by certain Asiatics.

 

The combining of the words Jesus Christ is what I would call a perfect example of two original Gallic titles passed down to the masses with incorrect meanings that direct many to the  Asiatic-Indian cults instead of the true European Christian religion which many these days simply know as something called pagan.

 

 

What theyre also not telling you is that there were many Yehoshuas and that man crucified around 2000 years ago was not the first or the second Yehoshua. The old testament, which predates Yehoshua the Nazarene by hundreds of years, also mentions another Yehoshua, its just that modern translators have translated the old testament Yehoshua to Joshua while the new testament Yehoshua has been conveniently rebadged as Jesus invoking European Gallic terminology into an otherwise Asiatic-Indian cult text which originally had nothing to do with genuine European Christianity.

 

The inconsistent translation of the old testament Yehoshua to Joshua while the other Yehoshua in the new testament is translated to Jesus is an example of the deceit being propagated.

 

The new testament set of stories was created to hide the true origins the genuine Christian religion by rebadging some of the genuine Christian events and terms as being Asiatic-Hebrew in nature and linking them to events in Asia which really have nothing to do with genuine Christian religion.

 

The modern bible an amalgamation of both the old and new testament stories, further adds to this deception because it not only brings many false invented stories (parts of the new testament), it also brings totally unrelated stories (old testament) under something called Christian a religion which in its genuine state has very little (5%) to do with whats been written in the new testament set of stories and absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the old testament set of stories.

 

The Roman Empire and the empire of Alexander the Great before it, created a cultural bridge between Asia and Europe. During this time some sort to create a unified empire where everyone was supposed to believe in the same one authority and the same one religion. The main unifying tool was of course to be a new religion (which wasnt really new but merely a rebadging of several different religions) whereby the glue is the bible.

 

A bit like taking apart two different model cars and creating a new street machine where the instruction manuals of both cars have been joined into one new instruction manual the bible.

 

This new street machine however is 90% (old testament plus much of the new testament) made up from the Asiatic model and only around 5% (parts of Revelation and other small bits) from the European model. The remaining 5% was just invented to make the two separate models work.

 

The modern bible is merely an erroneous and misguided attempt to bring together several different belief systems into a one size fits all set of books. The old testament set of stories have nothing at all to do with Christianity while only around 5% of the new testament relates to genuine Christian doctrine but even this portion has been somewhat corrupted.

 

For example, the reincarnation of deities is Asiatic in original and not Christian, that isgenuine Christian. The story of this Yehoshua the Nazarene being the reincarnation of the Lord or the son of the Lord has Indian-Asiatic cult written all over it.

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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Nov-2006 at 04:41
Originally posted by JanusRook

Embarrassed Sorry not a linguist, thanks Komnenos, but it would still be Joshua wouldn't it, or did I get that wrong? I know there are other Joshua's in the Bible, does Jesus share their name or is his name different in Hebrew?
 
I'm pretty certain that Joshua is simply another version of Yehoshua. Aramaic and Hebrew script in all their versions are notoriously difficult to transscribe into the Latin alphabet, due to their lack of vowel graphemes.
The name Yehoshua in all its variants was surely a relatively common name in Judaic societies, there is of course the Prophet Joshua and the "Book of Joshua" in the Old Testament. Same name, different transliteration.


Edited by Komnenos - 10-Nov-2006 at 05:02
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2006 at 14:24
Originally posted by Komnenos

Those of us living in the real world will easily recognise the transliteration from the Hebrew Yehoshua, via the Koine Greek Ιησους (IESOUS), via the Latin Iesus, to the Jesus with a J when the letter was introduced into the Vulgar Latin of the Middle ages, and now used  in most IE languages. Simple as that.
 
Those of us living in an alternative universe, feel free to speculate, but do it in the "Historical Amusement" section of our forum.
 
I was going to say something like this, but would've been accused of Greek nationalism. Tongue
 


Edited by Hellios - 09-Nov-2006 at 14:25
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  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2006 at 07:58
Thanks for the info Janus and Komnenos.
You should have been a comedian Komnenos, although perhaps people would actually find you funny in the alternative world (joke)Wink


Edited by OSMANLI - 09-Nov-2006 at 07:59
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2006 at 07:25
Embarrassed Sorry not a linguist, thanks Komnenos, but it would still be Joshua wouldn't it, or did I get that wrong? I know there are other Joshua's in the Bible, does Jesus share their name or is his name different in Hebrew?
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2006 at 07:16
Those of us living in the real world will easily recognise the transliteration from the Hebrew Yehoshua, via the Koine Greek Ιησους (IESOUS), via the Latin Iesus, to the Jesus with a J when the letter was introduced into the Vulgar Latin of the Middle ages, and now used  in most IE languages. Simple as that.
Those of us living in an alternative universe, feel free to speculate, but do it in the "Historical Amusement" section of our forum.


Edited by Komnenos - 09-Nov-2006 at 09:57
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2006 at 07:16
Osmanli, actually English speakers shouldn't use Jesus in reference to Christ since that is his Greek name, the proper English translation would be Joshua, but I guess Joshua Christ sounds a bit mundane. (And while where at it Christ is just another Greek term too.)

And actually in spanish Jesus is pronounced more like Hay-Seuss than Yay-Seuss but then again that could have been influenced by language changes over the centuries.
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  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2006 at 06:44
As far as i know in Aramaic, Arabic and i think in Hebrew as well Jesus is known as Isa (Eesa). The word Jesus that we are more familier with came from the Spanish Jesus (J=Y in Spanish, thus Yesus). In English the 'J' is not a 'Y' thus is were we get the current form of Isa's name.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2006 at 04:06
Originally posted by Worldhistory

No it was not. The word "Jesus" has nothing to do with the stories of the old and new testament.
 
It's only modern bible translations which have appropriated the word "Jesus" from the Gallic religion and placed this word in the Asiatic stories of the bible.
 
The word "Jesus" never appears in the bible and the man who was crucified was never called Jesus but Yehoshua the Nazarene.
 
Now, you're going to be told that "Jesus" is the Greek translation from Hebrew or that it's the Latin translation from Hebrew but it's all lies.
 
Asiatic peoples have been rebadging their Arabic-Indian sounding names into more European Gallic sounding names in order to hide the true Indian origins of many of the bible stories, especially the old testament.
 
If the bible kept the real name - Yehoshua of Nazarene, Europeans would more easily see the Indian origin of many parts of the bible and hence its falsity as an European religious text.
 
 


Ahem, I don't normally resort to this, but could you please produce some evidence or shove the crap back where it came from.


Edited by Zaitsev - 09-Nov-2006 at 04:08
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2006 at 23:46
You know what, I think out map makers have lied too. I mean there couldn't possibly be a middle east. Europe probably connects directly to Iran, how else can you explain indo-european languages.

Worldhistory, thank you for opening my eyes.
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  Quote Worldhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2006 at 23:22
Originally posted by JanusRook

Wasn't that Jesus' name?
 
No it was not. The word "Jesus" has nothing to do with the stories of the old and new testament.
 
It's only modern bible translations which have appropriated the word "Jesus" from the Gallic religion and placed this word in the Asiatic stories of the bible.
 
The word "Jesus" never appears in the bible and the man who was crucified was never called Jesus but Yehoshua the Nazarene.
 
Now, you're going to be told that "Jesus" is the Greek translation from Hebrew or that it's the Latin translation from Hebrew but it's all lies.
 
Asiatic peoples have been rebadging their Arabic-Indian sounding names into more European Gallic sounding names in order to hide the true Indian origins of many of the bible stories, especially the old testament.
 
If the bible kept the real name - Yehoshua of Nazarene, Europeans would more easily see the Indian origin of many parts of the bible and hence its falsity as an European religious text.
 
 
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  Quote Hope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2006 at 06:42
It was indeed. Jesus is just the Latin name, as Peter is the Latin name for Kefas or Judas is the Latin name for Yehuda.
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2006 at 04:14

To start off with Jesus didn't say that at all. Those words are attributed to a Yehoshua of Nazarene.


Wasn't that Jesus' name?
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  Quote Worldhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2006 at 03:37
Originally posted by Hope

Hi all
 
I have heard that Jesus once said:
 
Do not fear the flesh, or it will conquer you. Do not love the flesh, or it will devour you.
 
Something like that.
 
However, I have forgot where I found it, so I was hoping any of you could help me with this one.
 
 
To start off with Jesus didn't say that at all. Those words are attributed to a Yehoshua of Nazarene.
 
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