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Topic: Goguri, Korean or Chinese? Posted: 09-May-2005 at 16:59 |
Originally posted by ChineseManchurian
again, I wound say in Chinese perspective Goguri is a kingdom besidees mainland China.
all the world consider Goguri is in Korean history, Chinese also. So what? does that means Goguri have any relative with Modern Koreans?(except for some tradition, but you see, Koreans also keep some Chinese traditions also, so Chinese have to be Korean?)
I read a story, that when Tang captured Goguri, They removed all the Goguri people into Chinese villiage, I think Manchurians should be part of Goguri but Goguri have nothing to do with modern Korea. |
According to Chinese scholars, most of the Koguryo people were taken into China. They are correct if their assumption that there were only 760,000 people in 760,000 households is correct. Anyways, that's complete stupidity(see how absurd China's claims are?). It is usually estimated that Koguryo's population was at 3.5 million upon its fall, and that about 200,000 were taken into China, while the rest were gradually assimilated into Shilla and Koryo(from Barhae) over a long period of time.
Again, Goguri are also have nothing to do with China, they should be a nation that disspeared in history for 1000 years already. Even Korea or China put into their history, but still can't prove Goguri is Korean or Goguri are Chinese. They are disspeared already. so why should we argue about that? I knows the reason is the Korean nationalism is rising. When I was live in Manchuria many people come from South Korea wrote words on their shirt to say give Manchu to Korea , so I think this is what we argueing about, the land.![](smileys/smiley17.gif) |
Korea's claim over Manchuria isn't an old thing. It was sought for since the fall of Barhae by both Koryo and Chosun Dynasty.
Edited by oblivoin38
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Posted: 09-May-2005 at 16:37 |
Originally posted by Gubook Janggoon
As for you saying that Goguryeo isn't a Korean state. I agree. In the modern sense it isn't. The idea of being Korean hasn't existed until modern times and at earliest sometime during the late Goryeo dynasty. |
There is no knowing when the sense of unity had started, but there was already a sense of unity among those "three" peoples during the Shilla Dynasty, under its "߲" ideal. The official theory on what makes up the Korean people today is not a combination of these "three" peoples. It is the combination of Yemaeks and Hans(). It is theorized that Koguryo was predominantly Yemaeks, Baekjae a mixture of the two, and Shilla predominantly Hans.
Shilla, Baekje, and Goguryeo were 3 different nations, of 3 different peoples, of 3 different languages, and of 3 different cultures. Yet these are all critical to Korean history. All these different groups have come together to form what you and I are today. |
Even according to written records, which are very limited and vague, Koguryo and Baekjae shared similar languages and culture, while Shilla differed. Although Shilla's language was written as "different", there is no knowing of the degree to which Shilla's language differed from the other two. It would have been like the difference between Seoul dialect/Jejudo dialect(incomprehensible to many Koreans yet of the same language), or Seoul dialect/Pusan dialect(subtle difference, though comprehensible), or Korean/Japanese(completely incomprehensible, yet grammatical similarities). However, it wasn't as different as Korean/Chinese, since according to analyses on written texts, the grammatical structures were quite similar(subject-object-verb). It is widely accepted in Korea that all the three languages and culture were similar to a degree, which played a huge role in Shilla's successful reunification efforts. On the contrary, Barhae's constituents were of different ethnicity, language, and culture, which played critical roles in its destabilization and its eventual fall.
Edited by oblivoin38
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Posted: 09-May-2005 at 16:17 |
Originally posted by KohYoung
Hmm... Goguryeo being Chinese or Korean... I think it's neither. It's a mixture of both korean and Chinese cultures and etc... So how could be either korean or Chinese? Btw I am of an Goguryeo bloodline (father's side) however I am of an korean bloodline (mother's side) lol and my sure name is Koh, pronounced "Go"... My aunt who is an Korean historian says the Go family is of royal family during the Goguryeo kingdom.. However I do not believe it her...lol..
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The current Gohs in modern Korea are not descendents of Koguryo. Under Shilla's unification policy, all of the Koguryo and Baekjae people had their surnames changed. Some examples of Koguryo and Baekjae-derived surnames are Kangs() and Seos(), respectively.
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Posted: 09-May-2005 at 16:11 |
Originally posted by coolstorm
why do korean people claim goguri? |
South and North Korean academics claim the heritage of Koguryo and its continuity from Gochosun on three points:
1. Ethnic continuity - Koguryo is one of the kingdoms that reincorporated the Yemaek people who were scattered across southern Manchuria and the northern half of the penninsula after the fall of Gochosun.
2. Cultural continuity - Similar myths and totems to name a few.
3. Historical continuity - Koguryo has always been categorized as a Korean kingdom in numerous historical sources. Also, Shilla defined their conquests as "Reunification of the Three Hans()".
Central efforts of China's recent historical distortion is based on attacking Korea's claim of ethnic continuity. Korea claims Yemaeks as the scattered people of former Gochosun, while China claims Yemaeks are Chinese immigrants.
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Gubook Janggoon
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Posted: 11-Apr-2005 at 01:36 |
Originally posted by KohYoung
lol. Glad to be here. But anyway. I heard there were three Chinese
colonies in Korea, which were Lolang, Taifang, and I forget the third.
Koguryeo conquered Lolang and taifeng but what happened to the third?
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They were all either conquered by the 3 kingdoms or just
disappeared. A lot of them were merely practices in map drawing
while a few were actual "colonies".
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KohYoung
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Posted: 11-Apr-2005 at 01:31 |
lol. Glad to be here. But anyway. I heard there were three Chinese
colonies in Korea, which were Lolang, Taifang, and I forget the third.
Koguryeo conquered Lolang and taifeng but what happened to the third?
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Gubook Janggoon
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Posted: 11-Apr-2005 at 01:22 |
Originally posted by KohYoung
well unless the person was extremist of Goguryeo... lol... About the
Goguryeo thing and my family.. I didn't say I believed it but I'll try
looking anyway. With some luck i may find something.
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BTW welcome!
Good to have another Korean on board.
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KohYoung
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Posted: 11-Apr-2005 at 01:07 |
well unless the person was extremist of Goguryeo... lol... About the
Goguryeo thing and my family.. I didn't say I believed it but I'll try
looking anyway. With some luck i may find something.
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Gubook Janggoon
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Posted: 11-Apr-2005 at 01:02 |
Originally posted by KohYoung
I'll just have to just scrunch up some family history to find proof...
lol but anyways, I must disagree with the three kingdoms being entirely
different. They were different yes, however they weren't entirely
different. Bakche was formed from immigrants from Goguryeo and I think
the refugees from the Chinese colonies in korea at the time, I'm not
totally sure. So Goguryeo and Bakche shared some smiliarities.
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That's what they claimed.
Supposedly Dongmyeong wang of Goguryeo was the son of some Buyeo king and Onjo wang was supposedly the son of Dongmyeong.
They were pretty damn different though. Culture, Customs, Language. All very much dissimilar.
BTW. I don't think your family historical reccords would go back
to Goguryeo. Mine barely go back to Goryeo and it would be
difficult to continue on the Shilla. In addition to this, after
unification by Shilla, I would think that it wouldn't have been too
popular to claim that one was of an enemy nation.
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KohYoung
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Posted: 11-Apr-2005 at 00:56 |
I'll just have to just scrunch up some family history to find proof...
lol but anyways, I must disagree with the three kingdoms being entirely
different. They were different yes, however they weren't entirely
different. Bakche was formed from immigrants from Goguryeo and I think
the refugees from the Chinese colonies in korea at the time, I'm not
totally sure. So Goguryeo and Bakche shared some smiliarities.
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Gubook Janggoon
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Posted: 11-Apr-2005 at 00:49 |
Originally posted by KohYoung
lol... Impossible you say? How so? You never know.. People can have blood from anient civilizations
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There's no assuarance to that though. The kingdom died hundreds
of years ago. If you have blood from that particluar nation, then
it is extremely small.
The only are only a few people who can rightly claim ancestry to
ancient kingdoms. Such as the Gimhae Gim clan and one of the Tae
clans.
Most of all. Where is your proof?
As for you saying that Goguryeo isn't a Korean state. I
agree. In the modern sense it isn't. The idea of being
Korean hasn't existed until modern times and at earliest sometime
during the late Goryeo dynasty. Shilla, Baekje, and Goguryeo were
3 different nations, of 3 different peoples, of 3 different languages,
and of 3 different cultures. Yet these are all critical to Korean
history. All these different groups have come together to form
what you and I are today.
Goguryeo is just about as Korean as Qing is Chinese.
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KohYoung
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Posted: 11-Apr-2005 at 00:19 |
lol... Impossible you say? How so? You never know.. People can have blood from anient civilizations
Edited by KohYoung
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Gubook Janggoon
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Posted: 10-Apr-2005 at 23:56 |
Originally posted by KohYoung
Hmm... Goguryeo being Chinese or Korean... I think it's neither. It's a
mixture of both korean and Chinese cultures and etc... So how could be
either korean or Chinese? Btw I am of an Goguryeo bloodline (father's
side) however I am of an korean bloodline (mother's side) lol and my
sure name is Koh, pronounced "Go"... My aunt who is an Korean historian
says the Go family is of royal family during the Goguryeo kingdom..
However I do not believe it her...lol..
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The royal family held the name Go, but that doesn't mean you're related
to them. Go is also the surname of one of the 3 orignal kings of
Jejudo. I hate it when people say that they're part
Goguryeoan. That's fricken impossible.
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KohYoung
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Posted: 10-Apr-2005 at 23:13 |
Hmm... Goguryeo being Chinese or Korean... I think it's neither. It's a
mixture of both korean and Chinese cultures and etc... So how could be
either korean or Chinese? Btw I am of an Goguryeo bloodline (father's
side) however I am of an korean bloodline (mother's side) lol and my
sure name is Koh, pronounced "Go"... My aunt who is an Korean historian
says the Go family is of royal family during the Goguryeo kingdom..
However I do not believe it her...lol..
Edited by KohYoung
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Gubook Janggoon
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Posted: 14-Feb-2005 at 13:30 |
I've just realized, the first picture Elanjie posted
reminds me a lot of Aztec/Mayan ruins....It's so amazing how different
people are often attracted to the same thing...I think Tobodai once
speculated that it's the same drive that causes people to build sky
scrapers...
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Posted: 14-Feb-2005 at 12:33 |
Very good, and it makes a lot of sense.
That's also why Taiwan is part of China, and China claims Taiwan.
So, before anyone says anything about Taiwan, please do consider how we feel.
Else you shouldn't blame us for doing the same thing to you.
^_^ |
i don't really have a stance on Taiwan, but I don't think that is the same.. Koguryo to Korea is many becoming one. Taiwan to China is one becoming two..
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Posted: 10-Feb-2005 at 23:54 |
Originally posted by Elanjie
Originally posted by Gubukjanggoon
Yes very nice pictures!
I believe the last one is called the "General's Tomb"...but
Elanjie...could you please elaborate more on how you have Goguryeo
blood? |
As you quote ,the water is too clear there is no fish to live.
i think this is also very popular in china,as another saying come from history books.
water
is too clear ,there is no fish to live;people try to be extremely
rational and too examing, there would be no one around him.
ˮ,;,ͽ
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You're speaking in riddles here and are not being very clear.. Could
you perhaps state clearly what you mean..and answer my question from
before? Thanks!![](smileys/smiley4.gif)
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Posted: 10-Feb-2005 at 21:45 |
Originally posted by Gubukjanggoon
Yes very nice pictures! I believe the last one is called the "General's Tomb"...but Elanjie...could you please elaborate more on how you have Goguryeo blood? |
As you quote ,the water is too clear there is no fish to live.
i think this is also very popular in china,as another saying come from history books.
water is too clear ,there is no fish to live;people try to be extremely rational and too examing, there would be no one around him.
ˮ,;,ͽ
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Gubook Janggoon
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Posted: 09-Feb-2005 at 22:07 |
Yes very nice pictures! I believe the last one is called the
"General's Tomb"...but Elanjie...could you please elaborate more on how
you have Goguryeo blood?
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Posted: 09-Feb-2005 at 21:59 |
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