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Halevi
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Topic: Israeli elections.. who will win? Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 02:16 |
Any predictions?
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"Your country ain't your blood. Remember that." -Santino Corelone
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Halevi
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Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 04:54 |
... no one's up on Israeli politics?
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 05:40 |
Even though I hate to say it. I think the dead mans party will win.
Can anyone tell me why they are keeping Sharon alive?
P.S. Are they afraid of what Arafat is going to do to him in the afterlife?
(btw, shortly after Yasser Arafats death, a Yasir Arafat started
playing cricket for pakistan. I think its possible that Arafat faked
his own death in order to join the pakistani cricket team.)
Edited by Omar al Hashim
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azimuth
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Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 05:45 |
does it really matters who wins??
to me they all the same, after all Israel is a zionist state.
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Leonidas
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Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 06:45 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Even though I hate to say it. I think the dead mans party will win.
Can anyone tell me why they are keeping Sharon alive?
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You know i forgot all about him . I agree they are all the same, Kandina sounds moderate initially. They talk about the 'pragamatic' way and giving most of the land back, but all they really want to do is wall in the palistinains into two seperate bits of land while doing so. open air prison is not a solution
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Leonidas
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Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 06:46 |
Is there any party that is "radical" enough to talk to the palistians as equals?
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Halevi
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Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 07:07 |
Yeah, MERETZ is a far left wing party thats more inclined to negotiate
with just about anyone on "the other side". The new Hamas government is
really a sticking point though.... any party that openly declares
theyll negotiate with the 'terrorist' organization that has killed so
many Israeli civilians just isnt likely to do that well at the polls.
Whether you like Hamas or not, that just reality.
Also theres a tiny communist party, and one or two arab parties that
would be willing to join a government that agrees to negotiate without
preconditions. Something tells me they may be out of contention for forming a government though.
Ironically ( ? ) the Sephardi religious party, SHAS, may be willing to
negotiate... but only out of indifference... theyre primarily concerned
with maintaining a level of "jewishness" amongst the Israeli body of
law. (Comparable with an Islamic party bent on incorporating Sharia
into a country's legal code)
Edited by Halevi
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Halevi
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Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 07:11 |
Originally posted by azimuth
does it really matters who wins??
to me they all the same, after all Israel is a zionist state.
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I understand your apathy... ive become pretty apathetic too, perhaps
for other reasons... nonetheless, we're kind of in the same place.
That being said, if Likud wins, the West Bank will (likely) stay
under full Israeli military occupation, and continued Israeli civilian
settlement, for the forseeable future.
If Kadima, or anything left of it, wins, large segments of the West
Bank will become free of Israeli civilian settlement. This
is regardless of 'negotiations', which seem to be increasingly less
likely.
Out of curiosity ... i know you're anti-zionist.. duh... but, if you
were leading the Palestinians... what sort of Israeli government would
you negotiate with and/or 'recognize' (if anyone at all), and what sort
of deal (short term or long term) would you be willing to strike to
better the lot of your people?
Edited by Halevi
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"Your country ain't your blood. Remember that." -Santino Corelone
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Halevi
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Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 07:24 |
Originally posted by Leonidas
I agree they are all the same, Kandina sounds moderate
initially. They talk about the 'pragamatic' way and giving most of the
land back, but all they really want to do is wall in the palistinains
into two seperate bits of land while doing so.
open air prison is not a solution |
It's 'Kadima' which means, roughly, "the way forward" (arabic speakers
might recognize the root 'q-d-m', which can, ironically, mean 'distant'
or 'old' heheh)
...and basically, yes, they want to have their cake and eat it
too. Their idea is to dismantle isolated Israeli civilian
settlments in the West Bank, while simultaneously consolidating the
major settlement 'blocs' that already exist. They'll block off and
cantonize the rest of the non-Israeli settled West Bank (probably
including Arab neighbourhoods of East Jerusalem) with the infamous
'wall'.
Labour is pretty much like Kadima, only more socialist, and their
voters comprise a much larger chunk of the traditional Israeli 'peace'
bloc that voted for Ehud Barak back before the outbreak of the
intifada. Many Labour voters have since become totally disillusioned.
... Many Labour voters have also often (mistakenly) thought that they're voting for total settlement
withdrawal but, in reality, the Labour party has been instrumental in
designing the settlement project to begin with.
The Likud is 'worse' in that they dont even want to relenquish any
Israeli civilian settlements and - ideally - would want to transfer all
the Palestinians out of the West Bank, even though they know they can't.
Meretz is an honest-to-goodness left wing party that wants Israel to
withdraw entirely from the West Bank, and likely negotiate with anyone
who's willing (perhaps even Hamas) ... Theyre generally
considered a bunch of idealistic sissies by the rest of the Jewish
population... maybe they are ! .... this is the party most of my family
usually votes for...
Edited by Halevi
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Beylerbeyi
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Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 14:20 |
I also think Kadima will win.
Theyre generally considered a bunch of idealistic sissies by the rest of the Jewish population... maybe they are |
Courage means standing against the tide, not being conformist sheep.
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Halevi
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Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 16:58 |
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi
I also think Kadima will win.
Theyre generally considered a bunch of idealistic sissies by the rest of the Jewish population... maybe they are |
Courage means standing against the tide, not being conformist sheep. |
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"Your country ain't your blood. Remember that." -Santino Corelone
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azimuth
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Posted: 28-Mar-2006 at 02:49 |
Originally posted by Halevi
Originally posted by azimuth
does it really matters who wins??
to me they all the same, after all Israel is a zionist state.
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I understand your apathy... ive become pretty apathetic too, perhaps for other reasons... nonetheless, we're kind of in the same place.
That being said, if Likud wins, the West Bank will (likely) stay under full Israeli military occupation, and continued Israeli civilian settlement, for the forseeable future.
If Kadima, or anything left of it, wins, large segments of the West Bank will become free of Israeli civilian settlement. This is regardless of 'negotiations', which seem to be increasingly less likely.
Out of curiosity ... i know you're anti-zionist.. duh... but, if you were leading the Palestinians... what sort of Israeli government would you negotiate with and/or 'recognize' (if anyone at all), and what sort of deal (short term or long term) would you be willing to strike to better the lot of your people?
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i dont know what Israeli government would be good.
if its up to me i would like a united country under one democratic government with all citizens having equal rights.
and the Palistinians refugees having the right to return and participate in developing their nation along with the jews.
and before all, Jerusalem to be back as a peacfull place with all its holy sites protected and all people free to practice their religions.
btw in arabic kadam means foot, takadum/mutakadem means advancing/going forward.
they all have the root of Ka da ma, which also means old/ancient .
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Leonidas
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Posted: 28-Mar-2006 at 05:40 |
If i was a Isreali, i'd probably think along the lines of kadina purley becase its the best case scenerio one can aim for without doin anymore than playing the advantage. Pragamatic expansion But im not, and would much rather see the leftist way, which is the only pragmatic and peaceful way forward. I would of assume that the disillusioned labour vators could split into the meretz or kadina camps.
Originally posted by Halevi
Meretz is an honest-to-goodness left wing party that wants Israel to
withdraw entirely from the West Bank, and likely negotiate with anyone
who's willing (perhaps even Hamas) ...
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As for negotiating with Hamas, democracy is great in that it can throw you some real wildcards, either way the people have spoken and Isreal will have to deal what they are saying. I was quite pleased they got in, but only because it puts the democracies in the west/isreal between a rock and a hard place (its a twisted 'what do they do now' thing).
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Halevi
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Posted: 28-Mar-2006 at 05:59 |
Originally posted by azimuth
Originally posted by Halevi
Originally posted by azimuth
does it really matters who wins??
to me they all the same, after all Israel is a zionist state.
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I understand your apathy... ive become pretty apathetic too, perhaps
for other reasons... nonetheless, we're kind of in the same place.
That being said, if Likud wins, the West Bank will (likely) stay
under full Israeli military occupation, and continued Israeli civilian
settlement, for the forseeable future.
If Kadima, or anything left of it, wins, large segments of the West
Bank will become free of Israeli civilian settlement. This
is regardless of 'negotiations', which seem to be increasingly less
likely.
Out of curiosity ... i know you're anti-zionist.. duh... but, if
you were leading the Palestinians... what sort of Israeli government
would you negotiate with and/or 'recognize' (if anyone at all), and
what sort of deal (short term or long term) would you be willing to
strike to better the lot of your people?
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i dont know what Israeli government would be good.
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Ever thought about it?
if its up to me i would like a united country under one democratic government with all citizens having equal rights. |
Much of the Israeli left feels similarly... theyre simply frightened
that most Palestinians wouldnt been keen on maintaining the principle
of equality, once Jews were no longer the majority.
I agree with your vision, in general, but think it would most likely
have to be eased in in stages (beginning, first and foremost, with
Palestinian autonomy, and the granting of full and equal citizenship to
any Arabs under current Israeli jurisdiction that still dont have equal
rights) ... also, i like the idea of maximum de-centralization,
allowing for the creation of many different local communities (arab,
jewish, secular, religious, mixed, etc) each with a high degree of
self-determination... the monopoly on violence would be
centralized, and made highly transparent
and the Palistinians refugees having the right to return and
participate in developing their nation along with the jews. |
I also think that would be nice. Jews, of course, fear this would
only worsen their demographic position as a minority, leaving them
vulnerable to attack. These concerns will have to be assauged
first, over time...
and before all, Jerusalem to be back as a peacfull place
with all its holy sites protected and all people free to practice their
religions. |
Have you been to Jerusalem? Its actually quite a bit freer than you
may think. That being said, *huge* improvements could be made.
While people are free to practice whatever religion they want, the city
is becoming cantonized into ethnic groupings, separated by that
infamous wall. Eventually, Id like to see the city
internationalized... it would *house* the capitals/administrative
centres of the local communities, but it would be 'neutral territory',
so to speak ... much like the UN in NY. It could even serve as the
seat of a new Muslim Caliphate, if the Muslims so desire...
btw in arabic kadam means foot, takadum/mutakadem means
advancing/going forward. they all have the root of Ka da ma, which also
means old/ancient . |
Really? is that with "ka" or "quf" ? ... i thought foot was r-j-l
Edited by Halevi
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azimuth
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Posted: 28-Mar-2006 at 06:12 |
yea i know about the majoriy/minority thing, but well it shouldnt matter if it was a democratic state and all will have equal rights.
rejil is leg not feet lol
foot is Kaddam, with a Qaf.
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Halevi
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Posted: 28-Mar-2006 at 06:18 |
Originally posted by azimuth
yea i know about the majoriy/minority thing, but
well it shouldnt matter if it was a democratic state and all will have
equal rights.
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Ideally, yes, of course. The Jews are highly skeptical, due to past historical experiences ; )
rejil is leg not feet lol
foot is Kaddam, with a Qaf.
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That makes sense =) ... shukran ....... Leg in Hebrew, by the way, is 'regel'.
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Halevi
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Posted: 29-Mar-2006 at 06:50 |
Well... its decided.... Looks like a Kadima-Labour(-possibly Shas) coalition.
Who guessed right?
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Leonidas
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Posted: 29-Mar-2006 at 07:37 |
bey wrote it
the far right did well over likud, could this be broadening split between the Isreali's?
Also low turnout mite effect this result, with all the motivated types generally being more opinionated and less moderate (which itself is a relative term to be used lightly)
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