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Italian Empire in WWII era...
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pekau View Drop Down
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Italian Empire in WWII era...
    Posted: 01-Sep-2007 at 00:37

It's another "What if" question. Suppose Italy had great successes in Africa and Greece like Germans were doing in France and Central Europe. Discuss the aftermath...
     
   
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ChickenShoes View Drop Down
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Posts: 152 		  Quote ChickenShoes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2007 at 14:00

too much of a 'what if', i can't even hypothetically give italy any power because it is that absurd.

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Posts: 114 		  Quote Crystall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2007 at 15:13
Originally posted by ChickenShoes

too much of a 'what if', i can't even hypothetically give italy any power because it is that absurd.

Hah, yeah I am going to have to agree...
 
It's like saying what if Greece suddenly beat the Italians and invaded and captured Rome. We know Greece could not do this because they were not strong enough to do so.
 
Maybe this wasn't the best comparison but the point is Italy was not as strong as portrayed thus we cannot be sure
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2007 at 14:30
Why not? Italy had enough manpower, and if their military was trained like German military, it won't be an impossible scenario?
     
   
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Posts: 1399 		  Quote Justinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2007 at 14:35
Originally posted by pekau

It's another "What if" question. Suppose Italy had great successes in Africa and Greece like Germans were doing in France and Central Europe. Discuss the aftermath...

Well in this case I would assume you mean the italians being able to take egypt and shut down the suez canal to allied troops.  Also that greece would be occupied by the italians.  Well that would help the germans out an enormous amount, Barbarossa would still probably start late because of Yugoslavia.  Though the germans would have more manpower and the likes of Rommel in russia.  I would say the war would last longer, but the end result would be the same.  At most perhaps the british offer some sort of peace terms or the western allies break with the russians.
"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2007 at 14:49

As deadkenny pointed out so eloquently elsewhere, every Italian decision was a disaster in the war. Their fleet came out and was sunk, stayed in port and was sunk, surrendered and was sunk.

 
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Posts: 485 		  Quote Serge L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2007 at 16:36
Well, you see, most of the military problems of Italy came from the fact Mussolini was quite incompetent in this field. Moreover, he put on command of armed forces people who, while supposedly loyal to him, were almost as incompetent as he is.
A Mussolini ho had just half of the military skills of Hitler could have done the difference.
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pekau View Drop Down
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2007 at 18:02
Originally posted by Serge L

Well, you see, most of the military problems of Italy came from the fact Mussolini was quite incompetent in this field. Moreover, he put on command of armed forces people who, while supposedly loyal to him, were almost as incompetent as he is.
A Mussolini ho had just half of the military skills of Hitler could have done the difference.
 
Doubt it. Hitler was a terrible military stragiest like Mussolini. Hitler's generals were brilliant though.
 
I heard from some members about infamous Italian human torpedo. What's that all about?
     
   
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Posts: 1286 		  Quote Balaam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2007 at 07:12
Originally posted by pekau

I heard from some members about infamous Italian human torpedo. What's that all about?
 
 
Is that what you are talking about?
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HEROI View Drop Down
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Posts: 468 		  Quote HEROI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2007 at 06:54
Italy in WWII had an massive army,but technologically far behind the rest of the powers,and that was the biggest mistake,you cant go in WWII with tanks of WWI  and expect to have success,no matter how big is the army and how much manpower you have at your disposal.
Industrial wars on massive scales depends on technological advances not on industrial quantity or manpower.
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deadkenny View Drop Down
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Posts: 994 		  Quote deadkenny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2007 at 20:40
When posing a hypothetical scenario, it helps to develop it a bit further.  Italy somehow 'magically' becoming a major military power is meaningless.  Are you asking about what Italy might have done it if had effectively prepared for the war beforehand?  Or if it had fought it 'as it was' but had made some better decisions?  Most of Il Duce's 'offensives', against France, Egypt or Greece were not properly prepared for.  Launching an attack on Greece at all, with the existing situation in North Africa, was obviously a mistake.  On the other hand, the Italians might have been more effective if they had dropped the pointless attack through the Alps on an already beaten France and had concentrated on an attack against the British in Egypt while they were at their most vulnerable. 

Edited by deadkenny - 09-Sep-2007 at 20:41
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pekau View Drop Down
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2007 at 21:44
Originally posted by HEROI

Italy in WWII had an massive army,but technologically far behind the rest of the powers,and that was the biggest mistake,you cant go in WWII with tanks of WWI  and expect to have success,no matter how big is the army and how much manpower you have at your disposal.
Industrial wars on massive scales depends on technological advances not on industrial quantity or manpower.
 
Italian armies are tecnologically behind rest of the powers, yes. But they were numerically and technologically superior to Greek defenders, aren't they?
     
   
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