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Turkish Political Violence

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Kilikya View Drop Down
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  Quote Kilikya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Turkish Political Violence
    Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 03:42

I am interested in Turkish Political Violence of the 1970s.   The events of Maras, Sivas, Tunceli and beyond, at the insignificant local level.  Of course in Turkey the Left->Right dichotomy took all sorts of other permutations, religious-secular, ethnic, nationalist.  What can forumers tell me about that? 

Left-right street violence was common in many European countries in those years Italy above all so Id be interested in hearing thoughts about that as well.



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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 14:16

As popular leftist movements gathered strength in Turkey, fascist militias started to assassinate leading left-wing figures. Fascist 'greywolf' groups had support from the 'Gladio' type organisations in the Turkish military (found in all NATO countries) and the state. In addition to attacks on the leftists, they also attacked the minorities. In Maras, Tunceli, and such cities, the left-right divide has taken over the traditional fault lines of Sunni-Alevi. In Maras, the fascists organised a pogrom against the Alevis, killing many, including children.

This violence from the right caused the left to retaliate in kind. The left organised the masses, specially in the big cities, and became a major political force. When it was obvious to the NATO that their fascist dogs were losing the battle and could not stop Turkish left, they decided to act, and a junta of right wing generals has disbanded the parliament and moved in to crush democracy and the left, in September 1980. American Embassy celebrated the event by writing 'Our boys did it!' to Washington. When the left was crushed, secularism was also targeted to set the Islamists against the left. And Turkish economy was made accessible to the foreign capital to exploit under Ozal.

All in all, the events show that Turkey was/is ultimately an American satellite/neo-colony.  

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  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 15:04

Similar movements were also seen in many European countries, as you mentioned, especially centering around Paris.

Turkey was put into political chaos during the 70s, people had been divided into poles and discord had been created within the folk.

It had been like a tabu in the years after the 1980 coup, but it is being talked again in the last decade. 

I will write more about that later on.

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 15:15

Still, you guys are lucky! I would have fascists any day over islamists, and that is coming from me, whose family is decidedly socialist in outlook and actions... my dad joined fedayin e khalq shortly after the revolution when he was court martialed after stopping an Islamist conspiracy to crush the Kurds. 

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 19:36
Kilikiya: I've edited the unwanted codes/smilies in your post. Just cleaned it from bugs. 

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 19:38
Originally posted by Zagros

Still, you guys are lucky! I would have fascists any day over islamists, and that is coming from me, whose family is decidedly socialist in outlook and actions... my dad joined fedayin e khalq shortly after the revolution when he was court martialed after stopping an Islamist conspiracy to crush the Kurds. 



They are the same thing. He would have been court-martialled in a fascist regime equally. Many fascisms were also largely fundamentalist.

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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 20:27

I disagree. Both suck of course, but Islamists/Fundamentalists are relatively tolerant and less belligerent. And another important thing: people can change their religions, but not their ethnicities. You can at least pretend that you converted to Islam and survive, like many in Iran do. But it is more difficult to convert to Turk if you are a Kurd.

And in Turkey, the state and the military are behind the Fascists, and US and NATO are behind the state and the military. Islamists are not supported by these forces (they used to be in the 80s), which make them far less dangerous. In fact, the military (and the US/NATO) sees them as the prime threat now, rather than the left.



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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 21:00

Well a fascist state is more susceptible to change.

and FYI.. the Kurds were crushed anyway, not because they were Kurds but because the islamists were consolidating their power, they did it to other groups too (MKO, Fedayin, Feminists, liberals and intellectuals), as it turned out the army went in and the officers refused to attack, they were purged and revolutionary guards came in and did the dirty work.

 

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  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2006 at 17:55

Originally posted by Maju



They are the same thing. He would have been court-martialled in a fascist regime equally. Many fascisms were also largely fundamentalist.

It is a little different in many countries...Turkey either.

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  Quote Kilikya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2006 at 03:50

Sorry, I don't know how to incorporate past comments in my answer. And sorry Maju, don't know about the smiles-they are not mine.  Are they back again?

Well Zagros, if I am not mistaken Tudeh was equally effective in Iran. I mean,

there are analyses of the Revolution which point to it as predominantly socio-economic. They too were crushed...or where they?...

after 1980. It's a bit different in the Middle East (and the non-European world) as Communism-Socialism was used as some kind of overarching ideology

and thus a means to nullify Ethnic and/or religious schisms predominant in as yet unconsolidated nation-states.

Beylerbeyi, I read a lot about the deep state and the fascist organizations dominating

intelligence and military--the Semdinli-Susurluk theory- but don't understand the precise structures..i.e institutions...

that activate these 'actions'. That is really what confuses me in modern (and 1970-2000) Turkey.

These Gladio-like organizations...did they use the political parties as a vehicle, military cells, masonic cells-- supra-state organizations?

And also, was it merely a function of NATO and the global Cold War? I mean I've been travelling around and hearing stories.

Basically, from what I understand, it was a massive farce, in the sense that all sorts of conflicts were resolved using the Left and right dichotomy,

even though they had no strict ideological convictions.

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  Quote Attila2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 20:55

and a afamous quote from that era :

"Bana saclar/solcular adam ldryor dedirtemezsiniz!"

If ppl had shown the attrocities of both of the sides(like maras massacre in Turkey,always denied by the rightists or "kanl katyn orman" (poland massacre done by the "mother soviets") towards which the leftists kept silent -however they had their beloved "karl kayn orman"   )

then that situation of chaos wouldn't continue

 

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