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Did you know? Lucky Christians!!
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    Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 05:46

1. Genghis Khan's sons Jochi and Tolui are brothers. And their wifes are sisters (Princesses from Kereids). That's why the relation between Jochi's sons (Orda, Batu, Berke, Shiban) and Tolui's sons (Mongke, Kublai, Hulagu, Arigh Boke) is peaceful. The two brothers was very good friends like their wifes.

2. Kereids tribe's religion was Christianity. After early death of Tolui, his wife Sorkhogtani Khatan from Kereids educated his sons (Mongke, Kublai, Hulagu, Arigh Boke) to respect all religion especially Christianity. That's why when Mongke become a Great Khan, he stopped mongol army to invade christian world (Eastern & Western Europe). And sent his brother Hulagu to free Jerusalem from Muslim. Hulagu destroyed Baghdad (all the Christian inhabitants in the city were spared).



Edited by Falco
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Posts: 6565 		  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 08:00
So Christians speak bad of Mongols but they are actually like their protectors. Yeap: lucky Christians. 

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Posts: 154 		  Quote Attila2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 08:02

Berke and Kubilai??? my two cousins were named Berke and Kubilay

so Kubilay was a christian??? hmm...cousin should change his name(haha ) !
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Posts: 290 		  Quote Scytho-Sarmatian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 08:07
You guys seem to be forgetting that after a couple of generations, the Mongols of West Asia had converted to Islam.  So much for them being the great champions of Christianity.

Concerning religious issues, the Mongols tended to go whichever way the wind blew.
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Posts: 6565 		  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 09:37
Kublai wasn't Christian. He was just open-minded. He wasn't Muslim either.

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He whas atheist!
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 13:03

Originally posted by Scytho-Sarmatian

You guys seem to be forgetting that after a couple of generations, the Mongols of West Asia had converted to Islam.  So much for them being the great champions of Christianity.

Concerning religious issues, the Mongols tended to go whichever way the wind blew.

 That's right. After death of Great Khans like Mongke, Kublai and Batu their generation had converted to other religion, because

1. The Mongols was few, they need to keep a army. That's why next Mongol Khans generation took religion of their people.

2. They need allies. (Example: Berke allied with Mamluks against House of Batu-Golden Horde).
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 13:09

Originally posted by DayI

He whas atheist!

Kublai Khan wasn't atheist. He was christian and he respected all religion especially buddhism and confucianism. That's why Kublai liked Marco Polo.



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Posts: 451 		  Quote tadamson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 21:42
Originally posted by Falco

Originally posted by DayI

He whas atheist!

Kublai Khan wasn't atheist. He was christian and he respected all religion especially buddhism and confucianism. That's why Kublai liked Marco Polo.



The only real evidence states that Khubilai was shammanistic with strong Buddhist leanings, he had Christian wives though.
rgds.

      Tom..
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Posts: 1800 		  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 22:05

Originally posted by Maju

So Christians speak bad of Mongols but they are actually like their protectors. Yeap: lucky Christians. 

Actually, the Mongols who became "Christians" were converted by Nestorian missionaries.  Nestorianism had long been condemned as a heresy (first for their view that Christ's personalities were split and then for Monophysitism) and they were not recognized by the Roman and Byzantine churches.  The ones that converted the Mongols were ancestors of the early Nestorians who had fled the Persian kingdom in the 6th century. 

Also, Roman and Byzantine Christians only "spoke bad" about them after they saw the genocide that the Mongols committed in the Muslim world.  The popes tried to convert them to Catholicism to no avail; the Byzantines saw the opportunity for an alliance that would protect them from the Ottomans, which worked in the mid-1400's when the sultan Bayezid Ilderim had to lift his siege of Constantinople to meet the attack of Tamerlane back East.

So really, if anything, the Mongols ended up being the "protectors" of Byzantine Christians!



Edited by Byzantine Emperor
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 22:59
In the 1250s, France's king, Louis IX was concerned about the Holy Land and hoped for an alliance with the Mongols in order to destroy Islam.
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Posts: 1800 		  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 23:38

Originally posted by Falco

In the 1250s, France's king, Louis IX was concerned about the Holy Land and hoped for an alliance with the Mongols in order to destroy Islam.

Yes, this is true!  I forgot about Louis IX.  I don't think he was successful in forging an alliance, though.
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Posts: 28 		  Quote Mameluke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2006 at 13:35

Ilkhan Hulegu, destroyer of Baghdad, had a Nestorian wife. She had a lot to do with the horrific massacre of Muslims in that city.

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Posts: 778 		  Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 10:58
Originally posted by Mameluke

Ilkhan Hulegu, destroyer of Baghdad, had a Nestorian wife. She had a lot to do with the horrific massacre of Muslims in that city.

Mameluke

 

Baghdad was also saked in 1401 by Tamerlane who was a devout muslim.
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Posts: 451 		  Quote tadamson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 11:11
Originally posted by Mameluke

Ilkhan Hulegu, destroyer of Baghdad, had a Nestorian wife. She had a lot to do with the horrific massacre of Muslims in that city.

Mameluke



Baghdad had resisted a siege, refused to surrender and had to be taken by storm.  In these circumstances cities were looted, pliiaged etc and citizens killed or sold into slavery.  This was normal across the world at the time, nothing special or unusual.  Nothing to do with a Nestorian wife..
rgds.

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Posts: 1460 		  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 14:20
Originally posted by Falco

Kublai Khan wasn't atheist. He was christian and he respected all religion especially buddhism and confucianism. That's why Kublai liked Marco Polo.


     I read that Kublai Khan set the rank of the profession of Confucian monks one step lower than a prostitute and one step above a beggar.

     "The Mongols directly attacked the Chinese cultural prejudice that ranked merchants as merely a step above robbers by officially elevating their status ahead of all religions and professions, second only to government officials. In a further degradation of Confucian scholars, the Mongols reduced them from the highest level of traditional Chinese society to the ninth level, just below prostitutes but above beggars." -- Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World, by Jack Weatherford

     I mean, Kublai Khan (like his Mongol predecessors) didn't persecute people for their religious beliefs, but I just thought it was worth mentioning.
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Posts: 28 		  Quote Mameluke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2006 at 09:41
Originally posted by tadamson

Originally posted by Mameluke

Ilkhan Hulegu, destroyer of Baghdad, had a Nestorian wife. She had a lot to do with the horrific massacre of Muslims in that city.

Mameluke



Baghdad had resisted a siege, refused to surrender and had to be taken by storm.  In these circumstances cities were looted, pliiaged etc and citizens killed or sold into slavery.  This was normal across the world at the time, nothing special or unusual.  Nothing to do with a Nestorian wife..

So why were Christians and their churches spared, if she had nothing to do with it?

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Posts: 451 		  Quote tadamson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2006 at 10:24
Originally posted by Mameluke

Originally posted by tadamson

Originally posted by Mameluke

Ilkhan Hulegu, destroyer of Baghdad, had a Nestorian wife. She had a lot to do with the horrific massacre of Muslims in that city.

Mameluke



Baghdad had resisted a siege, refused to surrender and had to be taken by storm.  In these circumstances cities were looted, pliiaged etc and citizens killed or sold into slavery.  This was normal across the world at the time, nothing special or unusual.  Nothing to do with a Nestorian wife..

So why were Christians and their churches spared, if she had nothing to do with it?

Mameluke



The patriach had already surrendered. (not that it spared all of them anyhow).
rgds.

      Tom..
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Posts: 132 		  Quote Akskl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2006 at 22:08


http://www.nestorian.org/nestorian_timeline.html

  1007-1008 Conversion of 200,000 Kerait Turks

http://www.oxuscom.com/timeline.htm

1007-1008    Conversion of 200,000 Kerait Turks to Nestorian Christianity

http://www.religion-online.org/showchapter.asp?title=1553&am p;am p;am p;am p;C=1362

Turkic speaking groups (or tribes) like Kereits, Naimans, Jalairs, Qongyrats, Onguts (now Waqs or Uaks), Merkits, etc. should not be called "Mongols".  They were Turks in 11-13th centuries, and they are Kazakh Turks today.


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