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Fundamentalists are rational

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  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fundamentalists are rational
    Posted: 11-Mar-2006 at 10:54
Originally posted by Seko

Fundamentalists are not rational! They may logically adhere to a desired or scripted path but they are generally not open to reason. 


yup
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2006 at 14:41
Originally posted by Cezar

Originally posted by Maju

Yeap. I also woke today thinking that Mormons aren't very tolerant actually... at least that's what I've read on the regions where they are dominant. Nevada made everything possible to be separated from Utah (the Mormon state) and I can't but recall the novel "The man who fell in love with the Moon" where Mormons ruin the freedom of a little far west community of Idaho with their morals. 

Who wrote that novel?



Tom Spanbauer (link to Amazon).

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  Quote white dragon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2006 at 10:34
Originally posted by Cezar

Originally posted by white dragon

Originally posted by Cezar

Originally posted by Halevi


Given their silly assumptions, fundamentalists behave far more logically than the non-fundamentalist believers.



Actually that's what I fear about religion: to be consistentone have to be radical. Therefore intolerance is a must for all religions. Tolerance is equivalent to the idea that the 3rd axiom might not be true. So if a person is religious he is intolerant. These are fundamentalists. Tolerant people are not religious, they onlythink ofbeing so!


not necssarily for instance as mormons "We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."


~ we know better => Nobody else knows better => nobody can tell us we are wrong => we (mormons) will not tolerate being told that we are wrong




you are doing what some people on this forum are quite fond of saying we do; taking itout of context. does it ever in that say "we claim the exclusive privilege" no it does not. it says "and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."
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  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2006 at 12:39

Originally posted by white dragon


you are doing what some people on this forum are quite fond of saying we do; taking itout of context. does it ever in that say "we claim the exclusive privilege" no it does not. it says "and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."

we claim the privilege & allow all men the same privilege

  1. who decides what the privilege is? the mormons, all others? maybe all men are not interested in the privilege.
  2. to claim and to not claim simultaneously is a contradiction. either you claim or you don't.
  3. Could you accept this:"We don't claim any privilege and allow the others to claim a privilege or not. We are just doing what we think is best for us and don't think of people that do otherwise to be necesarily wrong."
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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2006 at 21:09

Originally posted by Halevi

Originally posted by Maju

That there is a logic to it doen't mean that it is logical...

Know what I mean?


Yeah, i do... given their totally illogical assumptions, the rest of their behaviour is logical...

...what about people who share the same basic assumptions, however, but then dont follow through on them? That seems even less logical, or at best 'inconsistent' ... doesn't it?

 

I completely agree. While I refuse to believe in eating the body of an undead hobo or that there is a big supernatural father figure with total power waiting to make everything right (or wrong) when I die, I have to say that I have much more respect for fundamentalists than I do for the mildly religious. I know exactly what you mean here. I've met so many religious people who are religious to the point that it doesn't interfere with anything they would otherwise do, at which point they seem to reckon the rest is optional, something you do only if you want to achieve sainthood. They tend to embrace the mythology and the rituals, but often (paradoxically) are at the same time extreme examples of everything the religion is supposedly against. There must be some psychological thing going on with these people, I have the sense that the religion's only purpose in their life is to provide justification for their behaviours.

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  Quote Halevi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 05:21
Originally posted by edgewaters

Originally posted by Halevi

Originally posted by Maju

That there is a logic to it doen't mean that it is logical...

Know what I mean?


Yeah, i do... given their totally illogical assumptions, the rest of their behaviour is logical...

...what about people who share the same basic assumptions, however, but then dont follow through on them? That seems even less logical, or at best 'inconsistent' ... doesn't it?

 

I completely agree. While I refuse to believe in eating the body of an undead hobo or that there is a big supernatural father figure with total power waiting to make everything right (or wrong) when I die, I have to say that I have much more respect for fundamentalists than I do for the mildly religious. I know exactly what you mean here. I've met so many religious people who are religious to the point that it doesn't interfere with anything they would otherwise do, at which point they seem to reckon the rest is optional, something you do only if you want to achieve sainthood. They tend to embrace the mythology and the rituals, but often (paradoxically) are at the same time extreme examples of everything the religion is supposedly against. There must be some psychological thing going on with these people, I have the sense that the religion's only purpose in their life is to provide justification for their behaviours.



Precisely, and, moreover, religion allows us humans reconcile the apparent brutality of the world with our evolutionary drive to search for the 'cause' and find 'justice'.
"Your country ain't your blood. Remember that." -Santino Corelone
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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 16:49

Originally posted by Halevi


Precisely, and, moreover, religion allows us humans reconcile the apparent brutality of the world with our evolutionary drive to search for the 'cause' and find 'justice'.

 

I've always felt religion is at its best giving hope to people in terribly dire circumstances, and at its most harmful practiced by those in terribly advantageous situations.

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  Quote white dragon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2006 at 10:45
Originally posted by Cezar

Originally posted by white dragon

you are doing what some people on this forum are quite fond of saying we do; taking itout of context. does it ever in that say "we claim the exclusive privilege" no it does not. it says "and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."


we claim the privilege & allow all men the same privilege



  1. who decides what the privilegeis? the mormons, all others? maybe all men are not interested in the privilege.

  2. to claim and to not claim simultaneously is a contradiction. either you claim or you don't.

  3. Could you accept this:"We don't claim any privilege and allow the others to claim a privilege or not. We are just doing what we think is best for us and don't think of people that do otherwise to be necesarily wrong."


sorry it has taken me so long to respond, i find it hard to get a hold of a computer with internet acess right now.
1.the privilege refered to is to worship god however you want.
2. i did not say that we did not claim the privilege i just said it wasn't exclusive. we are often told that driving is a privilege. because one group of people can drive, does this mean nobody else can drive? no it doesn't.
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  Quote Halevi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2006 at 17:06
Originally posted by white dragon

Originally posted by Cezar

Originally posted by white dragon

you are doing what some people on this forum are quite fond of saying we do; taking itout of context. does it ever in that say "we claim the exclusive privilege" no it does not. it says "and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."


we claim the privilege & allow all men the same privilege



  1. who decides what the privilege is? the mormons, all others? maybe all men are not interested in the privilege.

  2. to claim and to not claim simultaneously is a contradiction. either you claim or you don't.

  3. Could you accept this:"We don't claim any privilege and allow the others to claim a privilege or not. We are just doing what we think is best for us and don't think of people that do otherwise to be necesarily wrong."


sorry it has taken me so long to respond, i find it hard to get a hold of a computer with internet acess right now.
1.the privilege refered to is to worship god however you want.
2. i did not say that we did not claim the privilege i just said it wasn't exclusive. we are often told that driving is a privilege. because one group of people can drive, does this mean nobody else can drive? no it doesn't.


Sorry ... i started this thread and am quite interested in what you guys have to say, but i seem to have difficulty understanding these last two posts... anyone care to explain?
"Your country ain't your blood. Remember that." -Santino Corelone
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2006 at 05:07
Originally posted by Cezar

The point is that the quran are inconsistent

I'd like to see you try to prove that one.

Originally posted by Mira


What's a fundamentalist?

Thats a very good question actually.

I suppose a fundamentalist is a person who sticks to fundamentals. Which, at least in Islams case, means that the people who are described as fundamentalists are not actually fundamentalists as they are not sticking to the fundamentals but rather drawing a lot of there practices from cultural sources, derived sources (such as Hadis) or their own imaginations.
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  Quote Halevi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2006 at 05:23
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Originally posted by Cezar

The point is that the quran are inconsistent

I'd like to see you try to prove that one.

Originally posted by Mira


What's a fundamentalist?

Thats a very good question actually.

I suppose a fundamentalist is a person who sticks to fundamentals. Which, at least in Islams case, means that the people who are described as fundamentalists are not actually fundamentalists as they are not sticking to the fundamentals but rather drawing a lot of there practices from cultural sources, derived sources (such as Hadis) or their own imaginations.


So who, in your opinion, is a *real* fundamentalist, then?
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2006 at 05:30
A (religious) fundamentalist as we use the word today is basically a fanatic:  aperson that does not make any difference between fiction (religion) and reality, a person that wants to mix religion with real life. A theocratist. 

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