Who were the first settlers on the Balkans?

Look I don't use a primary source, never.

If you say that Wikipedia is not a neutral point of view source, then you really don't know anything about it, take a look. So please.

I just told you that the History was wrong, and now is emerging the truth.

Why you don't want that Pelasgians are linked to Albanian?
This is called racism.

I have given you many quotes from sources that are over 2000 years old
Where?????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I ask you, answer to the above questions!!!!!!!!

MESSAPI
from|> Mes hap/hapur -> open ambient, land of open/good peoples


Edited by EagleAl - 08-Sep-2007 at 17:32

Well I search "pelasgian"/"pelasgic" in your link, and as everyone can see the pelasgians were before hellenes,

so
if pelasgians in "Pelasgians - Etruscan - Illyrian - Albanian" mean "Deep sea navigator"

and the greek came later then pelasgian, after the IE invasion

How can you afferm that is a greek word!!! if the word existed first in pelasgian language!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Originally posted by EagleAl Well I search "pelasgian"/"pelasgic" in your link, and as everyone can see the pelasgians were before hellenes, so if pelasgians in "Pelasgians - Etruscan - Illyrian - Albanian" mean "Deep sea navigator" and the greek came later then pelasgian, after the IE invasion How can you afferm that is a greek word!!! if the word existed first in pelasgian language!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't see anything in that box? What is it that you want me to translate. If it's the Lemnian text, Albanians aren't the only group trying to claim a connection to it. Linguist Polat Kaya made a word to word translation of the supposed indo european, eteocypriot or who knows what else plates into turkic language!http://www.compmore.net/~tntr/lemstelea.html

Of course NO scholarly linguists or archaeologists would entertain such revisionist claims.

The Pelasgians were that to be the pre-Greek population of the Aegean. They may have been Indo-Europeans and related to Greeks (as Herodotus thought), or they may have been Pre Indo-Europeans that eventually were absorbed by the Greeks, and Thracians. Pelasgians were NEVER placed in Illyrian lands by ancient geographers and historians.


Read what Herodotus says about them.....




The term Pelasgian is of an unknown etymology. Period. If I want to make far fetched conclusions with words as you have.

1) Pelagos= means sea in Greek so because the first three letters of Pelasgian and Pelagos are the same does that make them the same origin? No.


2) As for Trojan/Troy.....O.E. Troian "of or pertaining to ancient Troy," from L. Trojanus, from Troia, Troja "Troy," from Gk. Tros, name of a king of Phrygia, the mythical founder of Troy.


3) the term Balkan....(from the Turkish balkan meaning "a chain of wooded mountains"

4) Dorians:

Legends which survived among the Dorians and which have come down to us through Pindar, Herodotus and other ancient writers, say that the earliest ancestors of the Dorians were Makednoi (that is, Macedonians), who migrated to Doris from Pindos, more precisely from the Lakmos region. Since it has already been seen that the Dorians took their name from Doris, where they formed themselves into one ethnic group by the union of the local inhabitants and the newcomers, it can readily be inferred that the name Makednoi and the mention of Pindos as their original homeland do not refer to the whole of the Dorian tribe but just to one of its component groups - not the Hylleis, however, because these had settled in present-day Sterea Hellas earlier. Ancient texts containing echoes of fragments of a very old lost epic about Aigimios say that the Dorians stood in danger of attack by the Lapiths, that the king of the Dorians, Aigimios, sought the help of Herakles in return for the reward mentioned above, and that Herakles repulsed the Lapiths and established the Dorians in a region from which he had driven out the Dryopians. It follows that the race which was led by Aigimios and helped by Herakles was not yet the Dorians but the Makednians. Herakles here is no more than the representative of a people in central Sterea Hellas. One of the texts mentioned above says that Aigimios people at the time of the Lapith attacks were in Histiaiotis; others imply that they had already reached the northern part of present-day Sterea Hellas. The second version must be the earlier one, because it tallies with the mention of the alliance of the people who are represented by Herakles. The mention of the Lapiths as enemies of the Dorians, i.e. the Makednians, does not conflict with this version since, as we have seen, there are traces of Lapith settlements in the Spercheios Valley. The Dorians of the historical period were divided into three tribes: Hylleis, Dymanes, and Pamphyloi. The eponymous heroes of the Dymanes and the Pamphyloi were believed to be the sons of Aigimios who had led the Dorians to Doris. The eponymous hero of the Hylleis was said to be the son of Herakles who had acquired one third of Aigimios kingdom for helping him against the Lapiths


The Dorian tribes originated in Epiros......





5) Etruscan:

The etymology of Tusci is based on a beneficiary phrase in the third Iguvine tablet, which is a major source for the Umbrian language^] The phrase is turskum ... numem, the Tuscan name, from which a root *Tursci can be reconstructed. A metathesis and an e-extension produce E-trus-ci. A common hypothesis is that *turs- along with Latin turris, "tower", come from Greek τύρσις, "tower." The Tusci were therefore the "people who build towers"or "the tower builders."This venerable etymology is at least as old as Dionysius of Halicarnassus, who said "And there is no reason why the Greeks should not have called them by this name, both from their living in towers and from the name of one of their rulers."

6) Finally, the term Illyrian.

Illyrians may have a connection to Albanians. The only problem is from what we know of the Illyrian language it belongs to the Centum group, while Albanian is a Satem language. One cannot derive from the other.

Edited by chicagogeorge - 08-Sep-2007 at 19:19

There is no proof that
etruscans built towers, your confused.

The only builts from Etruscan that arrived to us are the necropolis.
Hey, I live in Italy, near Tuscany. It is totally wrong what you say.


First read history books.

Second. Can you explain me why the Etruscan, Pelasgian, Illyrian, Dorians, Troians with Albanian language are strictely connected (just annalyzing he word you have a history) ?

You know, the theory of Albania - Pelasgia, Etrusc., Illyria, Troy, it's not confermed ufficialy because Albanian language it is not expanded as the English.etc...
There is no many people who are working on that.

I want to ask you something:

If that theory of Albanian and Pelasgian language were ufficially confirmed, what will happened?
This is one of the most influencing thing that stop it.

Think about that, and don't use that sources, now you know why.


Edited by EagleAl - 08-Sep-2007 at 19:37

So you don't want me to use primary sources that are over 2000 years

You refer to Herodotus of 5th century BCE, not to a source that is from 2000 BCE.
I refer to Lemnos, dated 7th century BCE but it's retained to be oldest , so my source is oldest then yours.
I refer to Hommer, 7-8th  cent. BCE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgians

Read the above article.

How can you say so?

Did you read the article or not?

Originally posted by EagleAl Illyrian lang Centum and Albanian Satem. Look at the map in Wikipedia, the Albanian language and the Illyrian language not belong to any group. __________________________________________________________ I don't say that Illryian or Albanian lived toghether with Pelasgians, I say that Illyrians, Etruscans and Albanians come from Pelasgians. When you transalte the words in Albanian, they are linked all toghether with greek there are only scattered meanings. All the names and words have sense only in Albanian dialectic language! Informed your self take an Albanian dictionary and the Iliad in original language like Homer write it, comparate the worlds by your self! How can you say that you proof a thing, where there are not any other sources of the same period. 1. Hommer lived in 7th sec. BC, not at the time of the pelasgians 2. Herodotus lived in 5th sec BC, after Hommer, so it take his theory from him. 3. So according to you: if I'm the first to write that SMILEY invented the culture, and ME2 based in my theory (because it's the only known theory or source at the time) write that the inventor of culture is SMILEY this proof that SMILEY invented the culture. Please stop.

This is getting ridiculous. Pelasgians as a group are known to have survived in the late Classical period and beyond.  As for the insane assertion that Illyrian/Albanian is derived from Pelasgian....... Sorry, the ancient writers who knew the Illyrians and and the Pelasgians well, never ever even put the two in the same category. As for the roots of the Albanian language, it is an Indo-European tongue, and actually a separate branch from Illyrian (one is Satem and the other is Centum) so there is some doubt as to how the two are related.

ILIAD

The war at Troy was significant to Illyrians because it was the story of their heroic Dardanian ancestors. Throughout ages before the translation into Greek, Illyrian bards had been lamenting the fall of Ilios. Consequently numerous ballads about the Trojan War were scattered across Asia Minor and the Balkans.

The Illyrian variants of the Trojan War have been lost. The Homeric saga is a mere translation of an early oral heritage created immediately after the war. Progressively those poems were collected and translated in the same way Christians would shape their own Holy Book, the Bible later. As events of the story were embellished, names substituted with Greek appellations, the story gained a mythical flavor. Without Homer's wonderful poems, the story of Troy might have remained an Illyrian legend; instead it endured major alterations and was supplanted by the Greek triumph. However, Iliad bears the subliminal admiration for Trojans and pays homage to the defenders of the city. The so-called Homer's neutrality is actually a compromise of Illyrian and Hellenic versions of Iliad. Similar Illyrian epics were sung all over the Mediterranean so the official Homeric adaptation could not exaggerate the Greek magnificence.

The majority of Olympian gods not only side with the embattled citizens of Wilusa but they even fight for Trojans against Achaeans. If Iliad is the allegoric account of an unjust war, the epic of Agamemnon, his horrendous death back home was interpreted as a punishment for the destruction of Wilusa. A similar fate would follow almost all Greek heroes who participated in the Trojan war. Their tragic death, their immense suffering was part of a bigger picture. The woes of Ulysses at the sea, the disappearance of all his wartime friends at the claws of gruesome monsters could not have been written by the Greeks either.

Illyrian bards used In Ulysses the epithet 'the divine Pelasgians'. This name ubiquitously used in Ulysses was a constant reminder of the real authors of the first and second epic. It was attributed to the pre-Greek population in the Balkans. Never had a singer of a conquering army praised the enemy and scolded the victors. Homer's neutrality not only didn't make sense with Greek prejudice against any barbaric values but it was also an affront to Greek instinct. No other Greek writer would ever follow the path of neutrality.

The exception of Homer was justified by his literary status. Homer was not a writer but a translator of two poems: one the old Iliad, the other rather new Ulysses written at least 150 years after Iliad. Extensive research has shown that Iliad and Ulysses are different in matter and style, definitely written by two different authors. Many Roman writers would make the same mistake, translate Greek tragedies and comedies, change the names and claim the texts as their own creation.

Semitic tribes that invaded the land of Sumerians would make history by including the Sumerian flood stories in their myth of creation. The accidental discovery of mud bricks in Uruk, Sumer (today Iraq) disqualified all biblical stories of Akkadian and Hebraic authorship.

A lot of literary creations were stripped of their Roman origin after similar Greek works of art were discovered later. But it is impossible to strip the Greeks in a similar fashion unless older versions of Iliad have been found by archeologists.

However, in the ancient world the copping of another's literary work was not considered plagiarism. Eventually the unauthorized modification of Iliad was better than nothing. Lost civilizations, destroyed cities, burnt libraries, monotheistic dogmas, religious scourge, plagues, fanatics, worn down papyruses, all contributed in the oblivion of ancient memories.

Both Greeks and Illyrians fought bitterly not only during the Trojan War but centuries afterwards for the authorship of Homeric songs. So intense was their competition that finally Greeks called themselves arbitrarily Helens. Illyrians have probably named themselves after their ancient city, Wilusa. Romans would follow suit by claiming a Trojan descent through the lineage of Aeneas. Virgil's Aeneid was an embellished official story, a kind of mythological propaganda. Homeric songs were no different in purpose and style.

The Greeks who historically had never acknowledged the appropriation of other gods, myths and ideas from other cultures (mainly Egyptian, Phoenician) proved to be the pirates of the greatest ancient oral tradition.

Etymological evidence shows that the name of Ulysses is an Italic-Etruscan reading of Wilussa, Wilussya capital of Arzawa or Greek Ilios. Ulysses is the conqueror of Wilussa. Therefore his name is of Hittite origin (translated into Etruscan). The epic of Wilusa is not 'the Anger of Achilles' but the 'victory of the hateful Ulysses'. Actually both poems have been dedicated to Ulysses. The first epic described the sharpness of Ulysses, his ingenious idea of building the wooden horse. The second epic was created after the invasion of the Hittite Empire by the Sea People.

Terrible earthquakes destroyed Mediterranean civilizations when the volcanoes erupted abruptly. Italic people believed that earthquakes were caused by angry giants sleeping inside the mountain caves. The single eye of Cyclops was the eye of the volcano. The rocks that the giants threw were the vent in the earth's crust through which molten rock was ejected.

Primitive Italic, Hittite, Illyrian people had no scientific explanation for the volcanoes. Allegedly the conqueror of Wilusa blinded the Cyclops, the son of Poseidon which caused the anger of the sea god who prevented Ulysses from returning home.

The common phonetic shift -d- > -l- of Italic-Illyrian languages proves that Hattussa was also read as Wilussa. That is why Troy had two names. Hittite called the disputed territory as Hattussa (Wilussa) while the Sea People from Dardania called it Darda > Troas.

More ancient sources on the Pelasgians that are DOCUMENTED. that show a clear relationship between Hellenes and Pelasgians. I challenge anyone to find an ancient source claiming Pelasgians are connected to Illyrians or Albanians, or ever once being place in Illyria or Albania!

Edited by chicagogeorge - 11-Sep-2007 at 20:21