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European Navy's around 1865
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Guess View Drop Down
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Posts: 141 		  Quote Guess Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: European Navy's around 1865
    Posted: 10-Apr-2008 at 04:37
When were Ironclads first mass produced? Were these by the US?
What types of war ships did Europeans use at this time? Were they still using Ships of the Line?
When did US/European Navies go entirely with iron ships?
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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2008 at 05:40
I think this answers all your questions.
 
I believe mass production of designer Ironclads began in 1858 in France.
 
Ships designed as wooden ships but later had iron plating nailed to them had been around since the Crimea.
 
1859 Britain began the construction of the first all iron ships.


Edited by Paul - 10-Apr-2008 at 05:42
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Posts: 591 		  Quote Peteratwar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2008 at 09:45
HMS Warrior Britain's first, is alive and well in Portsmouth Dockyard. Well worth a look if ever anyone gets this way (as is the whole of the Dockyard area)
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Originally posted by Guess

When were Ironclads first mass produced?
 
I don't think ironclads were ever mass produced. They were built in classes to similar design but that doesn't amount to mass production.
Were these by the US?
The closest thing to mass ship production probably was the production of Liberty ships in the US in WW2, but they of course were merchant ships.

What types of war ships did Europeans use at this time?
They were experimenting pretty wildly in a number of directions. Take a look at the list of ships involved in the Battle of Lissa in 1866 (the only significant naval engagement at this period). For some pictures http://www.uow.edu.au/~morgan/lissab.htm Smile
Were they still using Ships of the Line?
I'm not sure what you mean by a 'ship of the line'? 'Battleship' and 'ship of the line' are equivalent terms.

When did US/European Navies go entirely with iron ships?
Puristically, difficult to date. Both the Royal Navy and the US Navy have wooden ships still in commission.
 
Somewhere between the Battle of Lissa and the Battle of Manila Bay?
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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2008 at 17:48
A very interesting history of iron ship development can be seen here.
 
 
Seems military technology lagged well behind civil and a million miles behind Brunel.
 
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Oct-2011 at 19:15

Steam ironclads were used by the French during the Crimean War, but these could not go to sea. Above is a contemporary engraving of one of the gunboats used to attack Sebastopol
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2011 at 19:19

Here's a photo of HMS Warrior, the world's second sea-going ironclad and the oldest of its type to be preserved. It was ordered in 1860 in response to France launching La Gloire in 1859 but spent most of its life as a fuel hulk until restoration began in the 1970s


Edited by Nick1986 - 20-Nov-2011 at 19:19
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Posts: 541 		  Quote Delenda est Roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2012 at 23:20
The Monitor had an innovative turret design. The Virginia was also a very innovative and thrilling ship.
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2012 at 19:07

Latin American nations also developed advanced ironclads. This is the battleship Huascar of the Peruvian and Chilean navies
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Posts: 541 		  Quote Delenda est Roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2012 at 19:15
When did Europe and Latin America build mastless itonclads like the Virginia and Monitor?
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2012 at 19:37
The British and French had steam ironclad gunboats during the Crimean War, but these didn't got far out to sea. Normally, Victorian steamships used sails and restricted the engines to pursuits, coastal areas and traveling against the wind as the supply of coal was limited
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Posts: 541 		  Quote Delenda est Roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2012 at 19:43
Yet werent they substantially more vulnerable to cannon fire than fully enclosed ships?
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Posts: 1748 		  Quote Toltec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2012 at 22:44
Ironclading was proof against all guns of the day from the Crimean war onwards. Even HMS Warrior's massive 110lb guns proved unable to penetrate the hulls of ironclad ships at anything but close range. The Battle of Lissa and Monitor vs Merrimac emphasize this. It wasn't till the launch of HMS Achilles in 1863 that the first ironclad remotely capable of killing another ironclad existed, Achilles's Somerset cannons were the first effective weapon against ironclads, though in reality so large and unweildly they were not really that effective. In 1867 Britain launched 4 Minotaur class ironclads, these were true ironclad killer, their 9 inch rifled guns had double the penetration of Somerset cannons and worked well, they could sink any ship afloat without fear of recieving any kind of damage in return.

Edited by Toltec - 13-Aug-2012 at 22:56
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Posts: 541 		  Quote Delenda est Roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2012 at 22:50
Ramming was still a viable option so were torpedos. During the monitor and Virginia action the cannon fire did cause damage but nothing fatal. With masts and a non enclosed deck you risk cadualties and damage and boarding.
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Posts: 1748 		  Quote Toltec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2012 at 23:04
Boarding, not really I think you misunderstand the scale difference between an all iron ocean battleship with 40 guns, 800 crew plus as many marines they choose to deploy compared the a river boat with 60 crew, some iron nailed to some wood and peashooter. At Lissa they had Ironclads with rams, they weren't a good idea.
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Posts: 541 		  Quote Delenda est Roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2012 at 23:22
At Lissa the rams were a very good idea. They caused plenty of damage and sank an ironclad. The battle also highlights the vulnerability of the masts and such to cannon fire.With an unprotected deck you leave yourself wide open to anti personnel weapons. Torpedos sank quite a few itonclads in the Civil War. 40 guns wasn't exactly groundbreaking neither were the supposed 800 men. Attacked by some lightly armoured ships filled with troops she would probably overwhelmed. And a cutting out expedition is always possible.
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 19:13
A lot of sea-going ironclads only had armor protecting the engine room. The Confederates ordered several of these from Laird Bros to deliver European arms, then stripped the ships and turned them into river gunboats
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 19:21

Rams were effective against wooden ships, as CSS Virginia demonstrated in her battle with the Cumberland.
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Posts: 541 		  Quote Delenda est Roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 19:38
At the battle of Lissa a ramming attempt did sink a vessel.
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2012 at 19:37
From what i understand, this was down to luck. Normally an ironclad's ram was ineffective against other ironclads
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