Strabo (64 BC – 24 AD), the famous Greek historian and geographer, about Gilakis (Gelae), Cadusians (Cadusii), Amardians (Amardi) and other peoples who lived in the north of Iran, says:
Those nomads, however, who live along the coast on the left as one sails into the Caspian Sea are by the writers of today called Däae, I mean, those who are surnamed Aparni; then, in front of them, intervenes a desert country; and next comes Hyrcania, where the Caspian resembles an open sea to the point where it borders on the Median and Armenian mountains. The shape of these mountains is crescent-like along the foothills, which end at the sea and form the recess of the gulf. This side of the mountains, beginning at the sea, is inhabited as far as their heights for a short stretch by a part of the Albanians and the Armenians, but for the most part by Gelae, Cadusii, Amardi, Vitii, and Anariacae. They say that some of the Parrhasii took up their abode with the Anariacae, who, they say, are now called Parsii; and that the Aenianes built a walled city in the Vitian territory, which, they say, is called Aeniana; and that Greek armour, brazen vessels, and burial places are to be seen there; and that there is also a city Anariace there, in which, they say, is to be seen an oracle for sleepers,1 and some other tribes that are more inclined to brigandage and war than to farming; but this is due to the ruggedness of the region. However, the greater part of the seaboard round the mountainous country is occupied by Cadusii, for a stretch of almost five thousand stadia, according to Patrocles,2 who considers this sea almost equal to the Pontic Sea. Now these regions have poor soil.
Aenianes could be the same people of Amlash, as you read Strabo says "Aenianes" built a walled city in the Vitian territory, which, they say, is called Aeniana; and that Greek armour, brazen vessels, and burial places are to be seen there.
Amlash County (Persian: شهرستان املش) is a county in Gilan Province in Iran. The capital of the county is Amlash.
Amlash is also the name of an important culture which is well represented in all major museums as well as important private collections and galleries of ancient art.
These persian websites mention that some archaeologists, historians and scholars, such as Professor Andre Godard, believe that Amlash culture almost certainly relates to Greek and Etruscan cultures:
پروفسور آندره گدار كه اولين رئيس مؤسسه ي باستان شناسي ايران بود ، جنس اشياي به دست آمده از گورستان هاي نواحي املش ، پيركوه ، ديلم و ديگر روستاها را بيشتر از سفال سرخ رنگ دانسته است. طبق نظر او در گورستان هاي ديلم ، اشياي سفالي منقوش اگر هم وجود داشته باشد كشف نشده است ، اما مقدار زياد اشياي طلا و نقره كشف شده در اين ناحيه نشان مي دهد تزئينات آنها گاهي با هنر يوناني ها يا هنر آتروسك وابسته بوده است.
تز ئینات انسانی آنها به خصوص از نظر فیگور و حرکت بدن نحوه قرار گرفتن پرسوناژ وحالت رزمی یا جنگی که بخود گرفته سبب شد کارشناسان آنها را با هنر یونانی و هنر اتروسک ( ناحیه ای در ایتالیای مرکزی ) خویشاوند بدانند . این آثارمربوط به اواخر هزاره دوم و اوایل هزاره اول قبل از میلاد می باشند.
In the ancient times, the west bank of Urmia lake was called Gilzan, and in the ninth century B.C. an independent government ruled there which later joined the Urartu or Mana empire; in the eight century B.C., the area was a vassal of the Asuzh government until it joined the Mad empire after its formation.
A brick bearing bas-reliefs of two naked winged goddesses was unearthed at the 3000-year-old site of Rabat near the town of Sardasht in Iran's West Azarbaijan Province, the Persian service of the Cultural Heritage News (CHN) agency reported on Saturday. “This is first time such motifs (naked goddesses) were discovered in an archaeological site of the country. The importance of the discoveries created a worldwide media frenzy,” said Reza Heydari, an archaeologist of the West Azarbaijan Cultural Heritage and Tourism Department. “The discovery of naked winged goddesses in the region has astounded everyone. The goddesses are lean. Thus the archaeologists believe that they are not goddesses of reproduction and fertility,” he added. >> “Naked goddesses have frequently been seen in ancient Greek art." << The team of archaeologists working in the region believes that Rabat Tepe was the seat of government of Musasir about 3000 years ago. Musasir was a semi-independent buffer state bordering Mannai between Assyria and Urartu. It was a vassal state of Assyria yet Urartu had some claims over it.
Remains discovered in Rabat Tepe tell of a temple belonging to the Musasir civilization. Archaeologists believe remains they have discovered in Rabat Tepe, North West of Iran, belong to a Musasir civilization temple, probably leading to the discovering of nation-states Sargon occupied some 3000 years ago.
Musasir Temple, the Prototype of the Classical Greek Temples
And now, in the year 1986 or 2,700 years later, the author of this article has the audacity to claim that Musasir deserves the attention of the architectural world for no other reason than the preservation of the drawing of the temple by Flandin which accompanies the dissertation. Please look at the drawing and follow my line of reasoning. Here we see the oldest of the temples Ararat which, according to reliable sources, was built around 825 BC in the city of Musasir, which can be located with some certainty in the area between lakes Van and Urmia, in Historic Armenia.
Leonidas, We are not just talking about the name similarities, for example I think "Olive" could be also a good clue.
However the Olive tree is already native to Gilan alongside the eastern Mediterranean regions -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive but it said it was introduced to this region by the Mediterranean peoples about 3,000 years.
English: from a short form of the personal names Giles, Julian, or William. In theory the name would have a soft initial when derived from the first two of these, and a hard one when from William or from the other possibilities discussed in 2–4 below. However, there has been much confusion over the centuries.
Northern English: topographic name for someone who lived by a ravine or deep glen, Middle English gil(l), Old Norse gil ‘ravine’.
Scottish and Irish: reduced Anglicized form of Gaelic Mac Gille (Scottish), Mac Giolla (Irish), patronymics from an occupational name for a servant or a short form of the various personal names formed by attaching this element to the name of a saint. See McGill. The Old Norse personal name Gilli is probably of this origin, and may lie behind some examples of the name in northern England.
Scottish and Irish: reduced Anglicized form of Gaelic Mac An Ghoill (see Gall 1).
Norwegian: habitational name from any of three farmsteads in western Norway named Gil, from Old Norse gil ‘ravine’.
Jewish (Israeli): ornamental name from Hebrew gil ‘joy’.
German: from a vernacular short form of the medieval personal name Aegidius (see Gilger).
Indian (Panjab): Sikh name, probably from Panjabi gil ‘moisture’, also meaning ‘prosperity’. There is a Jat tribe that bears this name; the Ramgarhia Sikhs also have a clan called Gill.
one person claims, lets not get excited. the connection would be PIE, most like indo-Iranic. I still fail to see the Greek connection in terms of language.
the part of that wiki article which i have come across before, which is quite relevant is this part.
Other uses of the name "Gill"
The name "Gill" is also used in other parts of the world, especially in Europe and the Middle East.
English: From a short form of the personal names such as "Giles", "Julian", "William", "Gilbert" or "Gillian". In theory, the name would have a soft initial when derived from the first two of these, and a hard one when from 'William'. However, there has been much confusion over the centuries.
Northern English: Topographic name for someone who lived by a ravine or deep glen, Middle English gil(l), Old Norse gil ‘ravine’ or 'stream'.
Scottish and Irish: Reduced Anglicized form of Gaelic "Mac Gille" (Scottish), "Mac Giolla" (Irish), patronymics from an occupational name for a servant or a short form of the various personal names formed by attaching this element to the name of a saint. See "McGill". The Old Norse personal name "Gilli" is probably of this origin, and may lie behind some examples of the name in northern England.
Norwegian: Habitational name from any of three farmsteads in western Norway named Gil, from Old Norse gil meaning ‘ravine’ or 'stream'.
The modern Jat tribe of Gills are lineage from the King or Raja, Prithipat of Garh Mathila who was a Waryah Rajput. Thus, the Jat tribe of Gills is believed to fit under the branch of a predecessor umbrella Gill tribe that ranged from Central Asia through modern-day Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and North Western India. This tribe according to sources below is believed to have been of either Indo-Iranian origins from Central Asia, (specifically Scythian or Saka from their home on the Oxus, or possibly White Huns or Yuezhi) or a mixed Indo-Scythian and Greek tribe. The Indo-Aryan/Greek mix theory is due in part to tradition passed down through the tribe for over the last millennia as well as the timeframe in which Scythians/Yuezhi/White Huns which were competing Central Asian tribes of Indo-European descent settled in Asia and established kingdoms, such as the Indo-Scythian kingdom, and the geographical and chronological range of this settlement coinciding with Alexander the Great's invasion with his Greek army.
Theory of Greek origin
Bhim Singh Dahiya, a prominent Jat historian, traces the origin of the Gills to the Greeks. He speculates that the people of this tribe which was possibly Indo-Scythian came in the company of Alexander the Great. They settled in Kabul, Kandhar and the Punjab region. One of the sons of the legendary Greek mythical hero, Hercules was named "Gilla." It is also possible that ancestors of Gills came to Greece from Middle Asia (Scythians/Sakas) and then to what is now Pakistan, and Afghanistan. This would conform with typical Jat ancestry,[citation needed] distinguishing the Gill clan in particular as migrating/invading peoples from the Parthian Greek or Greco-Bactrian Kingdoms, which sprang up after Alexander's incursion. These would be a mix of ethnically Greek or Indo-Scythian (Indo-Iranian) peoples, whereas most Jat clans are typically descended from Indo-Scythian/Saka migrations/invasions from the north (Central Asia and Western China).[citation needed] The Shahi Dynasty of Afghanistan and the Punjab, and many of the rulers of Greco-Bactrian kingdoms post-Alexander were also from the Gill clan.
Not to be a wet blanket, but while we may find something Greek about this village. The people in that part of Iran, are distinctively Iranian in their background. The languages up in that Gilan-mazarandan (sp?) area have been quite isolated from foreign language interference, unlike Parsi- oops Farsi. Flipper, much like Tsakonian. The archaisms themselves, i suspect make names look similar.
I would make an educated guess, their genetics are also isolated. but i will need to search around to see if that a fact. Mountain people preserve archaisms. I guess if there was a passing hellenic infleunce (endless possbilities) it may have clung on in this village.
People of Gilan and Mazandaran are certainly Iranian peoples, there is no doubt, but what is your definition of Iranian? People who live in Iran or speak an Iranian language? However I myself belive Gilaki is also an Iranian langugae but I have to admit that there are some important grammatical and lexical differences between Gilaki and other Iranian languages, even Mazandarani language, some of those difference have been mentioned here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilaki_language
In case I'm adding something to this discussion: most -if not all- of the golden Scythian artifacts were crafted by Greek artists from the Black sea colonies, not by Scythes themselves.
The internet should never be the primary source for information, and should always be used with extreme caution. This page has come into existence because I stumbled upon an internet site dedicated to the griffin (alernately: "gryphon", "gryps"). On that site the author stated that the griffin was adopted by Greeks from the Scythians in the 6th century BC... and the reasoning proffered as a means of supporting this hypothesis was that the author of that page had never encountered the griffin's role in any Greek myth. This page contains griffins from the Greek world that are one thousand years older than the Scythian-adoption claim made on that site. The earliest depictions of griffins occur on the Greek island of Thera and date to the 17th century BC or earlier.
In the Wikipedia entry on the griffin, the Aegean griffins are entirely omitted, hence creating the impression that the origin of the griffin lies instead in the Near East. What is depicted is a griffin from Marlik, Iran (pictured below), which dates to between the 12th - 13th centuries BC (c. 1250-1150 BC). The griffins of the Aegean predate the Marlik griffin by 400 years.
Years of Alulim Will Kaštaritu Conquer Karibtu Should Esarhaddon Send his Messenger to Kaštaritu Will Dusanni of Saparda or Kaštaritu Appear before the City Fragmentary Query Concerning Kaštaritu Will Kaštaritu or Dusanni Conquer Kilman Will Chief Eunuch Ša-Nabu-šu Capture Amul
The Cretan Heracles, one of the Idaean Dactyls, was believed to have founded the temple of Zeus at Olympia (Paus. v. 13. § 5), but to have originally come from Egypt. (Diod. iv. 18.) The traditions about him resemble those of the Greek Heracles (Diod. v. 76 ; Paus. ix. 27. § 5) ; but it is said that he lived at a much earlier period than the Greek hero, and that the latter only imitated him. Eusebius states that his name was Diodas, and Hieronymus makes it Desanaus. He was worshipped with funeral sacrifices, and was regarded as a magician, like other ancient daemones of Crete. (Cic. de Nat. Deor. iii. 16 ; Diod. v, 64.)
SAN, SON, ZAN, ZAAN. The most common name for the Sun was San, and Son; expressed also Zan, Zon, and Zaan. Zeus of Crete, who was supposed to have been buried in that Island, is said to have had the following inscription on his tomb:
[136]Ὡδε μεγας κειται Ζαν, ὁν Δια κικλησκουσι.
The Ionians expressed it Ζην, and Ζηνα. Hesychius tells us, that the Sun was called Σαως by the Babylonians. It is to be observed that the Grecians in foreign words continually omitted the Nu final, and substituted a Sigma. The true Babylonish name for the Sun was undoubtedly Σαων, oftentimes expressed Σωαν, Soan. It was the same as Zauan of the Sidonians; under which name they worshipped Adonis, or the Sun. Hesychius says, Ζαυανας, θεος τις εν Σιδωνι. Who the Deity was, I think may be plainly seen. It is mentioned by the same writer, that the Indian Hercules, by which is always meant the chief Deity, was styled Dorsanes: Δορσανης ὁ Ἡρακλης παρ' Ινδοις. The name Dorsanes is an abridgment of Ador-San, or Ador-Sanes, that is Ador-Sol, the lord of light. It was a title conferred upon Ham; and also upon others of his family; whom I have before mentioned to have been collectively called the Baalim.
Almannus and Celticus came from the fact that a similar hero was worshiped by the Germans and Celts, themselves noted for strength and daring deeds, and said to have been descended from Hercules. The unexplained Pataecus and Epipataecus are from Egypt; Maceris, from Libya; while Desanaus, Desanes, and Dosanes, or Dorsanes, are said to be of Hindu origin.
Not to be a wet blanket, but while we may find something Greek about this village. The people in that part of Iran, are distinctively Iranian in their background. The languages up in that Gilan-mazarandan (sp?) area have been quite isolated from foreign language interference, unlike Parsi- oops Farsi. Flipper, much like Tsakonian. The archaisms themselves, i suspect make names look similar.
I would make an educated guess, their genetics are also isolated. but i will need to search around to see if that a fact. Mountain people preserve archaisms. I guess if there was a passing hellenic infleunce (endless possbilities) it may have clung on in this village.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum