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Who are the Kurds?

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    Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 17:10
Originally posted by Murtaza

LOL

You are friend with PKK not Kurds.

Sorry man but If you enter anatolia(Not peacefully), I am sure Kurds will run faster than us for kicking you out.

 

I don't think so.  kurds and armenians are always allied when it is about anti-Turkism and kurds genetically always collaborate with the enemy of the state in wich they live.  it was in Turkey for 80 years ago. it's now in Iraq.   

 



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  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 15:40

A realistic approach from an Armenian, Interesting. You should attack me. Shout me as Denier. And have to tell you are no better than your ancestors.

Ah God!

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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 15:36
I would enter Anatolia like i would enter anywhere else.

We can do a lot of damage, we are just completely outnumbered and we dont have much cash .
Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!

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  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 15:23

No Armenians, I dont think they can do much damage too.

But I just want to show you how to enter Anatolia.

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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 15:21
Do you mean me personally? i dont think i would be able to do much damage if i visited anatolia violently.
Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance

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  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 15:17

Well If you come with peacefully. Welcome. But if not, I hope you run faster than us.

 

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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 15:15
Originally posted by Murtaza

You are friend with PKK not Kurds.

Sorry man but If you enter anatolia(Not peacefully), I am sure Kurds will run faster than us for kicking you out.


lol, you have a point.

So you're saying youd run also, just not as fast? lol

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  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 15:11

LOL

You are friend with PKK not Kurds.

Sorry man but If you enter anatolia(Not peacefully), I am sure Kurds will run faster than us for kicking you out.

 

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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 15:09
Originally posted by Murtaza

So how bad, You two brother race are enemy of each other.


Presently we are not enemies with the Kurds. They have apologized for what they did to us during the genocide.
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  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 07:34

Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

I read about a theory which stated that the Kurds are descendants of the Urartians that didnt assimilate into Armenian culture. Even when Urartu was a state, most of its inhabitants were infact Armenian. Some Urartians mixed into Armenian culture while others didnt. The theory states that some of the Urartians that didnt assimilate eventually became the people we now call Kurds. I dont really read too much into that theory, just throwing stuff out on the table for you guys.

So how bad, You two brother race are enemy of each other.

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  Quote HulaguHan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 04:22

If you read the Alexander' s hostory from Arrianus, you will see that Kurds are not the Medens but the Karduks.

A mountain people...

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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 03:32
I read about a theory which stated that the Kurds are descendants of the Urartians that didnt assimilate into Armenian culture. Even when Urartu was a state, most of its inhabitants were infact Armenian. Some Urartians mixed into Armenian culture while others didnt. The theory states that some of the Urartians that didnt assimilate eventually became the people we now call Kurds. I dont really read too much into that theory, just throwing stuff out on the table for you guys.
Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2005 at 17:28

Kurds are originally a persian tribe. Because of religieus conflicts with the other persians in the war between the Ottomans and the Turkmens of Safevid ismael in the 14th century  ( sunni /shia) they setteld in south east anatolia where they mixed with arabs, asyrians, armenians and other local  people.

the language "kurdish"is a persian language with a lot of Turkish and arabian words.     



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  Quote Hushyar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2005 at 01:33

Yafes:
1 & 2)It was forbidden until recently for them to have media or write books in Kurdish.

Actually I proved every thing

a)No you first spoke about language,this is your quote:

Originally posted by yafes


What they speak is not even a proper lang. system

I proved that this approach is wrong , or maybe you have another reason for your claim.Kurdish is definitely cinsidered as a seperate language.
b)
Originally posted by Yafes


the conciousness of a nation is sourced by with common movements.

Ok but movements are not necessarily hostile ,Then I think there is a misunderastanding here because of the meaning of nation.I correct my sentence:
Kurds considered themselves as a seperate people from their neighbors for centuries.
Originally posted by Yafes


They were always under administration of Iranians, Armenians, Arabs and Turks.

Except Armenians (only in Turkey's Kurdistan northern part ofcourse),I don't think other states have ever directly ruled there.They just gathered tribute or collected soldiers from there and actually it was impossible to have direct control there by flintlocks and old cannons.You want to compare Balkan or Syria with Kurdistan in Othman empire but this is wrong . They were seperate regions.In Blakan jannisaries were every where, But Kurds as saw any foreigners they thaught that he is a Turk and came from Sublime Port.
Originally posted by Yafes


They were derivation of iranians and mixed with iranis, armenians, arabs and turks.

Nation is different from race.I don't think you can find any pure race, but nation is defined by culture. Kurds are basically remenants of the primitive inhabitants of the same area whcih Iranized when mixed with some Iranic tribes and later mixed with armenians arabs turks and many other anatolian peoples who are lost through centuries. But kurds as a seperate nation remained through all of these centuries.
 c)
Originally posted by yafes


 they have their media, don't worry.

Recently ofcourse,only recently,and No I'm not worry.I think I have just proved comparision is wrong and it seems that you are satisfied.
Originally posted by yafes


and lastly, you wrote about loving kurds. why do i hate them? in addition, my father side is kurdish. but this does not make me a kurd. if i had the opportunity to search my genetic past, probably i'd find out armenian, iranian, indian, ... genes. so what????

So nothing.Why do you  became angry?I meant nothing.I said Love not hate,Why do you think what I said was double-edged ?I am a good boy. believe me.  
Originally posted by Yafes


you'll be surprised about what you wrote about Turks.

What have I said about Turks?????!!!!!!I have just spoken about Kurds,I just said one thing to Oguzoglu that why you turks become angry so easily?So what is this insult or misjudge?
Originally posted by Yafes


And I advise you to visit Turkey.

Thank you for your invitation,I know your country is big and beautifull and motherland of big civilizations, but I feel more secure in my own country,you know you become angry easily and I am a bit coward,But I advise you to visit Iran,(Iranian are a bit more tolerant,I mean people not G-mens), and more importantly:
1)Turks were first in Iran then they migerated to Anatolia.
2)There are more variants of turkic languages(you call them dialects) in Iran than Turkey.
3)There were many turkic dynasties in Iran.
4)you won't have any problem in communication,because there are many in Iran who know Anatolian Turkish,may be I would be one of them in near future(my maths was always wondeful)
and:
you'll find in Iran many different people who consider themselves as a different nation but also consider themselves as a part of a bigger iranian naion,and don't find any contradiction between these two.
Originally posted by Yafes


That's my last thread in this topic.

So what must I say?

                                     The End?



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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2005 at 15:09

first of all

1 what if I say culture? doesn't it include language? kurdish issue became a taboo with 1970s bcause of social conflicts, supported by countries like Iran, Syria, Greece, US... And reached the top in 1990s with PKK.

2 kurdish language was not recognised legally, true, but that does not mean it was forbidden.

and

you proved nothing

a) language or dialect, I wrote about kurds in TURKEY

b) the conciousness of a nation is sourced by with common movements. you wrote about little primitive administrations of kurds, but no significant state. They were always under administration of Iranians, Armenians, Arabs and Turks. They were derivation of iranians and mixed with iranis, armenians, arabs and turks. take the liquid theory: "fluids get the shape of the cab they are in."

c) kurdish is uncomparable with one of the most mathematical and evolutioned language Turkish. I never do that. they have their media, don't worry.

and lastly, you wrote about loving kurds. why do i hate them? in addition, my father side is kurdish. but this does not make me a kurd. if i had the opportunity to search my genetic past, probably i'd find out armenian, iranian, indian, ... genes. so what????

MIMAR SINAN(famous turkish architecht) was iranian originated but who made him MIMAR SINAN? The Ottoman rule. Kurds in Turkey are not seperate from Turks in the history, too. At least we know "Krt Hasan"s died in Canakkale(gallipoli) side by side with the others. But traitors always existed since Adam.

That's my last thread in this topic. And I advise you to visit Turkey. you'll be surprised about what you wrote about Turks, so far.

good luck

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  Quote ramin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2005 at 14:53
Originally posted by Ardashir

Kurds are "unmixed" Iranians.They have been living in their lands for ~4000 years (3000 years before the arrival of Turkmens in 11th century.)

Recently,they are becoming more and more Iranophlie!

For instance For Persian-speaking members)

http://zanyar.blogfa.com/post-56.aspx

As you can see,the Kurdish author of this article is very Iranist and Anti-Turkist

irano-what? i guess you're not familiar with this. Iranian nationalists are not neccessarily haters of Turks nor "foreigners" in general.

I, as for myself consider posts like yours "Spam".. because they'll bring pointless discussions regarding pointless issues.

AND Quit posting articles in foreign languages (e.g. Persian, etc).


Edited by ramin
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  Quote Hushyar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2005 at 13:39

Yafes
1)I didn't mean culture,I spoke about language, don't change the discussion line.
2)Every body knows Kurdish language was illegal in Turkey until recently,and even term Kurd was illegal until president Uzal 1n 1989 broke the Taboo and spoke about Kurds.

Ok up to know :

a)you claimed that Kurdish was not language, I proved that it is.
b)You claimed that Kurds didn't knew that they are different nation, until some british agents came and told them: Hey from now you call yourself Kurds and you speak this language which we invented from mixing some persian Arabic and Turkish words and from now you must hate turks.I proved that it is wrong.
c)You wanted to compare official Turkish language with a minority language (which did not have any media and even It was illegal until recently) and I proved that this comparision is wrong.

I think if you don't have another claim,We can finish this sweet discussion,unless you so love Kurds (maybe because you are partly kurd) that you want to keep this topic on top even when there is nothing more to be discussed.

 

 

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  Quote BirTane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2005 at 10:55

I dont wanna get in the subject who has right or not about the Kurds, history says that Kurds are thousand years in this land, but also Turks are more than a thousand years in the same land....it is really complicate issue....

I only want to say that Kurds are not easy populations, they are a bit "wild" , saying wild I mean under the view of the Europeans. Likewise the life style of them can shock even the anatolian societies and deffinetely the Turks. Personally I got really suprised of their attitude towards/against life....Dont blame only the Turks...as we cannot blame the Turks only in the Greek-Turkish "problem".

Kurds in Turkey get in the public organizations really easily....things are never in the way that they seems to be...always something is hided

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2005 at 10:23
Thank you Ardashir. That was a highly enlightening post. And maybe you can teach us some Persian one day...
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2005 at 08:50

prove:

you say we don't let them live their culture.

but we do let. in turkish televisions, there are too many programs(entertainment and series especially) evet to make forget the dominant Turkish culture. You know every national state has a dominant culture. I guess you are not against that.

what you hear from AOL-Time-Warner of Reuters are provocative news.

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