Hazara and Pan-Turk

 

I remember an article published in "Farhange Mardom" or Folklor in Kabul (? late 1970s) translated about Hazara people, there the researcher a Swedish orientalist, mentions interviewing some peopel who speak Mongol-Turkic. The original article was published many years ago perhaps 50s or 60s.I do not remeber the author and the translatore name ( ?not sure perhaps Rawan Farhadi).

 

They started speaking Hazaragi during and after the Ilkhaanid Hazaras. Just like the Moghuls of India and Osmani Turks, Ilkhaanids loved Farsi language and poetry. That could be a reason too. 

 

I understand what you mean by making a hybrid of both languages(khalkha mongol and turkic) but it would've been too hard, may be even impossible at that time to make such a language. Considering they all could already speak Farsi they had no difficulty to communicate with each other.

 

But the Hazaragi dailect of Farsi at that time was mostly Turkic and Mongol, with just some Farsi words and the grammer used was Farsi too. Slowly they started using more and more Farsi words. I tried reading old Hazaragi poems, I didnt understand 80% of it. The only words I undestood were simple words such as 'is' 'was' and etc, the rest are old Turkic and Mongol.

 

Unless you consider the Huns (who pushed the Yu-Chi (Tocharians) out of the Tarim Basin), and Saka (Scythians) (culturally speaking) who preceded them, I'm not sure where this book you mention gets its information from. 

 

According to wkipedia, the Turkic migrations occurred during the Medieval period, which is roughly 5th century to 14th century. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although there were Turks in Afghanistan up until the time of the White Huns.  More Turkics moved in after the Iranian Shers of Bamian were removed from power...  I did not recall any Turkic tribes moving into Afghanistan 2,000 years ago.  Please elaborate.

What do Hazaras consider themselves?  I've always had the impression they consider themselves 'Mongol,' though I have come across Hazaras whose 'tribe' claim Mongol and Turk ancestry based on their oral traditions.  

 

My question:

How did a LARGE group such as the Hazaras, who are unmistakeably of either Turk or Mongol (or mixture of both) descent, are/were  concentrated (mostly) in one large area with the rulers of the area, until recently, being mostly Turco-Mongol end up adopting a language (Persian) that would be 'foreign' to them? 

  

My observation:

Hazaras look similiar to Turkic peoples of the region (though as a group, they look possibly a degree more Mongoloid...if that makes sense), the women wear dresses in style that are similiar to the Pashtun (Kuchi) Nomads (embroidered chest, round skirts,pleated pants) though the colors used are vastly different, the jewelry and outter coat (Chappan) are exactly the style of Turkic peoples of the region, the language is a dialect of farsi with a smattering of turkic/Mongol words (Apa = Mother, Ata = Father).  I haven't read/seen anything on the culture, and most Hazaras are Shia.

 

Sorry if my question goes off-topic. 

^I thought everyone knew that.

 

I'm a Naiman Hazara, therefore I'm a Hazara too. I think we are more Mongoloid than Turkic now. Before the Great Mongol Empire, our ancestors were more Turks than Mongols in Hazarstan regions. But it was after the Mongol Empire when we became known as the 'Hazaras'. You guys know that the Mongol Empire was divided into four states. Hazaras are from the Chaghatai and Ilkhanates of Afghanistan and Iran.

 

Hazara acestors lived in Central Afghanistan for more than 2000 years. Kushans are also our Turkic ancestors. The reason why some people say that they were Indo-European is because they had many races in their army and government, they even had black looking people possibly Indians. But the high ranked Kushans were Kushan Turks who built the Buddhas of Bamiyan.

 

The Turanian armies kept increasing our numbers. Specially during and after the Great Mongolian Empire Hazara population became larger and larger. When our Mongol ancestors completely lost power, the defeted soldiers from Iran, Iraq and other cities returned to Hazarstan/Hazarajat.

 

An interesting fact is that some of our Hazara sub-clans are still called by their old names. For example Naiman, Besud and etc...Today if you go in Mongolia or Kazakhistan you can find many communities (tribes) who have the same names, but they are separated by small communities everywhere in Mongolia and Kazakhsiatn. Here are only some of the Kahlkh-Mongol tribes that exist in Mongolia:

 

1.Borjigon
2.Besud
3.Jalair
4.Hatagin
5.Olkhonud
6.Harnut
7.eljigin
8.bayaud
9.gorlos
10.darhad
11.Sharnud
12.Uriankhan
13.Chinos
14.Onkhod
15.Mangud
16.Torguud
17.Khereid
18.NAIMAN
19.Merged
20.Khibchag
21.SARTUUL
22.Tangud
23.Bashigad
24.Khirgis
25.Khasag
26.Uigar
27.Kharchin
28.Uuld
29.Ujeed
30.Jongoor
31.Khotogoid
32.Avga
33.Tugchin
34.Guchid
35.Khorchin
36.Khitad
38.Asud
39.Baatud
40.Barnud
41.Khuuchid
42.Khalbagad
43.Khangad
44.Jarangiinkhan
45.Togoruutan
46.Khar�d
47.Khorkhoi nudten
48.Buurluud
49.Khavchig
50.Bulagachid
51.Gozuul
52.Uzuun
53.Echeed
54.Khavkhchin
55.Orovgod
56.Tavnag
57.Khaakhar
57.Khunguud
58.Burged
59.Khuitserleg
60.Chutsuut
61.Ulanguud
62.Ezen
63.Undgaa
64.Gahan
65.Aksakal
67.Zuun shuvuuchin
68.Zaaruud
69.Dalandaganad
70.Tsagaan zel
71.Khar zel
72.Khariad
73.Daar�tan
74.Barchuul
75.Gerchuud
76.Baachuud
77.Buuchuud
78.Khuluud
79.Basigid
80.Tsookhor
81.Khiitluud
82.Gal
83.Motoi
84.Tele
85.Sood
86.Mankhilag
87.Khamnigan
88.Taijiud
89.Tsakhar
90.Soloon
91.Khoid
92.barga
93.Tsoros
94.Talas
95.Baarin
96.Alag aduun
97.Saljud
98.Uvashi
99.Uneged
100.Asan(esen)
101.Uuhan
102.uush
103.Tsoor
104.Jalaid
105.Zaisanguud
106.Zurchid
107.Sunid
108.Tatar
109.Tuuhai
110.Usun
111.khalkha
112.khandgai
113.khangin
114.Khiad
115.Khoton
116.khurlad
117.Tsagaan
118.Nirun
119.durved
120.baatar
121.Zelme
122.Tuved
123.Tavuud
124.Khoshuud
125.barlas
126.Urad
127.yamaat

 

As you can see there are Naimans and Besuds still in Mongolia. But in Hazarajat/Hazarstan areas today we also have Turkomens which were called Oghuz Turks in the ancient times. Also we have 'Jaghuries' who are the biggest the most ancient Hazara sub-clan. They were mainly Uyghur Turks, but after Oltan Khaan their name changed to 'Jaghuri'. They were good fighters, hard workers and also good horse riders. The name 'Jaghuri' is derived from the word 'Chau Quri' or 'Jau Quri' which was a position given to a direct ancestor of Chinggis Khaan who had to lead 100 Mongol soldiers, during Oltan Khaan. That's when they became known as Jaghuri people.

 

If we look  back in the past, we don't see many differences between Mongols and Turks. They had same believes and culture. But Turks today specially Turks in Turkey, because of their geographical location, they tend to be more European and Middle-Eastern. We have Turks and Mongols in our Hazara tribe, we don't see any differences. I think the reason is because we give more value to the name 'Hazara' more than the smaller names such as jaghuri, Besud, Naiman, Turkoman and etc... 

 

If you look at the any ancient sources, you cannot find the name 'Hazara' before the Mongol Empire. The reason is because they became known as the 'Hazara' during and after the Empire. Before that they were called buy different names. My point is that the people who are called Hazara today have more than 2000 years of history in Central Afghanistan. We are the Mongols and the ancient Turks of Afghanistan.

 

The Mongols killed every living being in Bamian, including, dogs and cats and lined their heads up in mounds.

 

The Hazaras are said to be descendants of the Mongol armies, not Genghis Khan.  The Mongol armies were made up of many different Turkic tribes as well as Mongols.  Bamian was setup as a garrison town for the Mongols and when the Mongols were eventually amalgamated with the rest of Persia and Central Asia, the Mongol hordes remained in Bamian, where they eventually converted to Shiite Islam.

 

Genetic studies have proven that they have Mongolian and Turkic ancestry.  Hazaras today are prevalent in every city in Afghanistan and have intermarried with every ethnic group.  My mother's grandmother infact, was a Hazara from Ghazni.