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Topic ClosedHazara and Pan-Turk
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omshanti View Drop Down
Baron
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Joined: 02-Nov-2006
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Posts: 429 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Hazara and Pan-Turk
    Posted: 09-Nov-2006 at 11:26
Ok . First of all I know that there are many biased and nationalistic posts and topics in the All empires and I usually ignore them , however since  I have already  made the mistake of  posting once  in this topic  I have to keep going.
I have to say that I do not especially dislike or like Hazara people and am completely neutral towards them, but I am a supporter of accurate and objective history.
So here it goes.
The faces of the great buddhas were unrecognizable for many centuries because of natural decay and also because of many cases of human destruction . Gengiz -khan himself pointed  cannon fires towards them. No body actually knows whether the buddhas looked caucasoid or mongoloid.
 
I do not see any reason for the British to lie and make a fake tale about the time of the arrival of Hazara people in the region. The time of the arrival of Hazara people  does not seem to make any difference for the British since they were already there for centuries when the British came.
 
Great Kushan mentioned that the Hazara people are likely to be  the decscendants of  the kushan empire in his first post , but  in his/her later post which was quoted from Wikipedia there is absolutely no mention of the Kushan empire as the origin of Hazara people. I agree that the people who built the Kushan Empire came from the place which is inhabited by the uyghur people in modern time , but this does not prove anything. In fact it is known that the Kushan people formed the basis of Pashton ethnogenesis alongside the Hephthalites.
 
These are only my opinions based on the things I have read here and there so I am not pushing anything as an absolute fact here . Corrections are very welcome.
 
I think the picture of the two children holding hands is lovely too, and Great Kushan please do not take any thing that I wrote badly , From your name it is obvious that you really care for the Kushan-Hazara connection and I do not feel good to write something that denies it ,but we have to try to be as objective as possible towards history. I am not trying to be rude or write something against you. It is just my opinion after I read the topic.
 
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mamikon View Drop Down
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Posts: 2200 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2006 at 09:32
http://www.hazarajat.com/great_buddah.htm

this is a biased source...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2006 at 08:00
Hazaras
Hazara children.
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Hazara children.
Main article: Hazara

Historically, the Hazara seem to have Turkic-Mongolian origins, but with some Caucasoid admixture from surrounding groups. Linguistically though the Hazara speak Persian, but their variant is interspersed with more Mongolian words, but this is also the case with many Turkic languages such as Uzbek. It may simply be the case that the Hazara are of Uyghur Turkic origin as many Turks accompanied the Mongol armies or arrived in the region long before the Mongols. It is however commonly believed by many Afghans that the Hazara are descendants of Genghis Khan's army, which marched into the area during the 12th century. Proponents of this view hold that many of the Mongol soldiers and their family members settled in the area and remained there after the Mongol empire dissolved in the 13th century, converting to Islam and adopting local customs. The theory regarding a more Turkic origin for the Hazara has equal validity and the relatively small number of actual Mongols in comparison to Turks makes it more likely that the Hazara are descendants of Turkic invaders who were Persianized over time. Unlike most Afghans the Hazara are Shia, which has often set them apart from their neighbors.

 
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OSMANLI View Drop Down
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Posts: 740 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2006 at 06:48
SelamAleykum, welcome Kushan brother to AE!
 
I think this was due to Islamic reasons and not due to the statues having Mongoliod faces.
 
P.S
I like the picture below the best, so cute Smile
Originally posted by Great Kushan

Click to view full size image
 
 
 


Edited by OSMANLI - 09-Nov-2006 at 06:51
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2006 at 02:42
Originally posted by mamikon

what Confused

do you have any evidence behind the claim that Pashtuns shaved Buddha's face?
 
I have a very clear evidence that the Bamiyan budddah has been destroyed little by little in the last 200 years since Pashtun come to power in Afghanistan. before 200 years it was a complete buddah body statue.
 
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mamikon View Drop Down
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Posts: 2200 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2006 at 01:09
what Confused

do you have any evidence behind the claim that Pashtuns shaved Buddha's face?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2006 at 00:30
Originally posted by omshanti

I might be mistaken , but I thought that the Kushan empire was build by a group of Indo-European people related to Tocharians. How can Hazara people be descendants of an Indo-European people? 

 
 
 
Indo-Eurpean or non Eurpean, Kushan people originated from present Uyghur regions of China. The Kushan people looked Mongoloid.
 
Can you guess why the Baminan buddah's face shaved by Pashtuns and destroyed completly by Taliban Pashtun in 2001. Because Buddah face was mongloid and similar to Hazara people. Pashtun has done anything to kill Hazara identity in more than one hundred years.
 
 
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omshanti View Drop Down
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Posts: 429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2006 at 00:06

I might be mistaken , but I thought that the Kushan empire was build by a group of Indo-European people related to Tocharians. How can Hazara people be descendants of an Indo-European people? 

 
 
 
 


Edited by omshanti - 09-Nov-2006 at 00:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2006 at 20:39
 
Hi to all Turk and Turko-mongol brotheres and sisters,
 
I am a proud Hazara from Hazaristan in central Afghanistan. Hazara are great peoples, they are brave, generous, talented and honest.
 
I beleive Hazara are from Uyghur Turk heritage, though Hazara are comonly known Gengis khan descendents by Pashtun and British propaganda. of course its true there are Mongol influence in Hazara but it does not mean that Hazara presense in Afghanistan started from 13 century onwards.
 
Most likely Hazara are the desecendents of Kushan empire. Kushan empire which ruled from 1 AD to 5 century in present day Afghanistan, parts of central Asia and northern Pakistan and India. Kushan people originally migrated from present day Uyghur regions in western china to present day Afghanistan.
 
Kushan empire declined in 5 to 6 centuries after invasions from west by Persian Sassanids and from east by Indian Gupta empire.
 
 
From  5 AD century onwards Hazara came under Persian empires influence. Sassanids ruled the regions of Hazara and Afghanistan until arrival of Islam. When the Arab conquest ended in Afghanistan, powerful Turkic islamic empires such as Ghaznavids and Ghurids arose to power from heart land of Hazara people, these empires which ruled Persia  as well, thus Persian language and culture played important rule in Turkic empires, like Moghul Turk empire in India. Hazara likely learnt Persian as second language but over time Persian become their first language.
Click to view full size image
 
By the time Gengis khan arrived in Afghanistan in 13 century, Afghanistan, Persia and central Asia was ruled by Khwarezm empire. Khwarezm was also a Turkic peoples empire.
 
Hazara during Gengis khan and mongol empire most likely played an important rule because Hazara looked Mongloid like Mongols and most importantly spoke Persian, For example imagine if Mongol took control of Iran and Afghanistan today which Persian language is very important and Hazara speak it. if Mongol and Hazara make alliance in controling the territory how much  Mongol would be succssful in ruling the empire. Similar things may have happend during Ghengis khan thus alot of influences you can find in Hazara people today.
 
Hazara region and central Asia was ruled by Gengis khan and his descendents from 13  to 18 century like Tamerlane and Babur.
 
In the last 200 years, specially in the last one hundred years Hazara has been unimginably oppressed and suppressed. In 1880s, Pashtun king with help of British money and weapons succeded in massacring 62% of Hazara population and taking 60% of their land and still occupy the land to this day. The Taliban Pashtun also wanted  to completly eliminate Hazara identity and history. Hazara are proud and will never be shaken by
anyone.
 
Turk and Turko-Mongloid brothers it is time to be aware of your Hazara brother. although Hazara speak Hazaragi a dialict of Persian. but we can learn Turkic language whenever we want to, My Uncle and his family live in Tahskent today all my cousons can speak Uzbeki now, i wish all Hazara could speak Turkic languages in the near future. Hazara future remain with Turk because who they are, Turk! our flag should be included in Turkic people flags always.
 
 
For more information please visit these Hazara websits,Smile
Click to view full size image
 
Click to view full size image
Click to view full size image
 
 
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