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BMC21113
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Topic: Are Muslims trying to change the West? Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 16:40 |
-I live in Norman, OK so we are fortunate for our prices to not reach as high as many other areas of the country. Also, I will be able to ride a bike or walk to school this fall.....and this will be where I spend most of my time throughout the semester. I have heard of alot of people actually having to switch jobs or move to compensate for their increased energy bills (primarily gas consumption). Alternative energy sources are by far my most important voting concerns for the previous and upcoming elections, so hopefully we will be able to elect officials who are capable of decreasing our dependency on uncertain sources.
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"To be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace"-George Washington
"The art of war is, in the last result, the art of keeping one's freedom of action."-Xenophon
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Red4tribe
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Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 16:20 |
excellent point bmc2113.And where are you gas is 3.50 near me.
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Had this day been wanting, the world had never seen the last stage of perfection to which human nature is capable of attaining.
George Washington - March 15, 1783
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BMC21113
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Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 14:52 |
Originally posted by Cent
America attacked Iraq for the oil. The knew that Saddam was weak, and they used 9/11 too justify the attack. |
-What an original insight! The "war for oil" crowd is not only grossly misinformed, but nearly brainwashed beyond retrieval. I understand we have different viewpoints regarding "cause and effect" of world influence, dominance, rights, wrongs, vengeance, etc...., but for those who choose to consistently point their fingers and condemn the actions and intentions of others with a complete disregard for reason and logic do not help the situation whatsoever. In the United States, we have anti-war demonstrators who consistently follow suite with the mad ravings of people such as Cindy Sheehan or the ignorant ideologies of Hollywood celebrities. What does this solve? Nothing! Instead of debating reasonable solutions for an obvious problem, many want to consistently play "blame America first, ask questions later!"
-As far is Iraq is concerned...... The invasion of Iraq was to remove a ruthless dictator "Hussein" and flush out those involved with terrorist action and/or conspiracy. We did not intend to occupy the country as long as we have....and for this I am not very happy. I personally feel that rebuilding the government, in retrospect, was a mistake. I have supported the cause the entire time, though I am afraid the Iraqi people are not holding up to their end of the deal. All of this oil that we are supposedly "stealing" is sure not helping out the American people very much. Gas is about $3.00 a gallon here, not much of a solution even if it were true.
-Finally, to answer the question..........yes, all civilizations that can "influence" the rest of the world will. We could go on all day about what the "right" way to live is, but it is ultimately up to the individual to decide for themselves. My views are totally opposite of many on this forum, though I respect diverse opinions. It really boils down to what one is used to and what one feels is best not only for themselves, but for the world as a whole. This is a very complicated manner, because ones "beliefs" are created by a vast combination of social, environmental and biological influences....many of which the individual realizes little, if anything, about. It is impossible for me to understand the motives behind organizations such as Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda, Hamas, etc.... but I am afraid much of the motivation goes beyond choice and enters the realm of deception and brainwashing. Religion also plays a key part in our current world conflicts. Islam, as well as Christianity, are both rooted in common beliefs such as compassion towards others and holding oneself at a high moral standard....but unfortunately, people misinterpret these messages. When one allows an ideology of any kind (religion included) overshadow logic, one is destined to become mentally weak and easily manipulated. It is simply the natural of order of things for others to prey off of these weaknesses for a wide range of personal gain.
Edited by BMC21113 - 01-Aug-2006 at 15:42
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"To be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace"-George Washington
"The art of war is, in the last result, the art of keeping one's freedom of action."-Xenophon
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Guests
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Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 19:20 |
[rant]In England, I understand that the resentment towards proposed changes to laws, customs, whatever that originate from the Muslim community(ies) are increasingly viewed as threatening....On the one hand, I sympathize with the resident community (ie. those who have been living under the current system) and would say...if you're so interested in maintaining your religious prohibitions (or whatever), establish businesses/community centres that cater to your belief system...to come to a country and then demand that they accomodate your religious beliefs when that country is founded on religious tolerance is just obnoxious imo....On the other hand, capitalism requires infinite resources... non sequiter I know, but some will get it :p
as far as America's 'benevolent warring' I submit that if the American leadership were truly concerned with spreading goodness around the world they would have done something about Robert Mugabe long ago...fact is, America needs secure sources of oil in order to continue (in the short term) with their way of life. Period. They, above all others, know that it is madness to get involved in a war overseas, but they must, if they want to have any control over their own destiny for the forseeable future. All the rest is mere details, IMO. Of course, they have VERY high hopes for the Alberta oil sands, which would more or less obviate such concerns for the short-middle term...the only way that will matter is if a Democrat gets into office though ;) All firmly IMO :p [/rant]
Edited by Malison - 30-Jul-2006 at 19:35
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Scorpius
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 17:48 |
Originally posted by Cent
America attacked Iraq for the oil. |
That is getting old. There may be many reasons, right or false, but I do not think "getting oil" is one of them.
Iraq war costed US economy a lot. The receipt is simply not worth for oil.
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Scorpius
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 17:44 |
Originally posted by kingofmazanderan
Its funny that people of different faiths think that thiers is the right one or the better one. Why don't they just get it that they are both right or both equally as good. |
Because they don't read their holly books.
They believe in things they are told.
And that is the problem.
For instance, do you think the evils who did 9/11 and such are muslim ? Absolutely No, But they thought they were.
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Red4tribe
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 14:31 |
Northman you make a very good point Iraq should not have happened but now we should do the best we can for it since were there.
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Had this day been wanting, the world had never seen the last stage of perfection to which human nature is capable of attaining.
George Washington - March 15, 1783
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Red4tribe
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 14:30 |
Originally posted by Cent
America attacked Iraq for the oil. The knew that Saddam was weak, and they used 9/11 too justify the attack. |
America did not go into Iraq because of 9/11.They went into Afghanistan to look for Osama Bin Laden.America and it's allies went into Iraq because we belived he had wepons of mass destruction.And please don't talk on this topic because you know nothing about it.
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Had this day been wanting, the world had never seen the last stage of perfection to which human nature is capable of attaining.
George Washington - March 15, 1783
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Northman
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 19:09 |
As long as some Islamic countries allows religious leaders to profile their politics - and as long as some Western countries allows their leaders to start wars under false pretexts - things wont get any better.
It all boils down to the most significant source for the trouble in the world today - religion. And both sides are equally to blame for this. Religious radicals in the west promoting and supporting Israel to do what they think is right - radical clerics of Islam in the East promoting and supporting terrorists to do what they think is right.
The crises/war in the middle east is escalating this moment.
Israel vs armed forces in Libanon this time. After hearing about this each day for the past 40 years, I cant help thinking that neither side is interested in peace. Its getting pretty old.
As for who will change who?
It depends on what level we are speaking.
Although I dont condone very much of what Sherif Bush is up to, then on the other hand, I dont see him attack peaceful Muslim countries like UAE. Egypt or the Saudi's in example.
So basically I dont think the west wants to change the east - from this broad perspective. The invasion of Iraq should never have happened. The pretext was invalid and false. But now that it DID happen - lets hope the people of Iraq can live a better life of freedom in the future, although I doubt the different Islamic groups will stop fighting unless they are forced to - the vast majority of the casualties there today are caused by these groups - not by the security- or coalition forces.
I believe most westeners dont see Muslims around them or in the east as a problem - but they see Islam as a threat due to the fanatic clerics and the terrorists who operates in the name of Islam.
And then the west needs to take measures to avoid attacks from terrorists - example Afghanistan and security measures at home.
In this manner - yes - Muslims do change and have changed the west.
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Cent
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 17:38 |
America attacked Iraq for the oil. The knew that Saddam was weak, and they used 9/11 too justify the attack.
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They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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Cent
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 17:36 |
You just said that Muslims are the problem...
"Muslims are trying to change the west which they should not be doing."
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They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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Red4tribe
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 17:32 |
First of all it's 9/11.So are you suggesting that America,Spain,India and whoever else Al-Queada attacks,that they should just sit back and watch?Muslims are not the problem, Al-Queada is.About Iraq do you know how many innocent lives Hussein took?True America should not be there anymore but if America,Britian and whoever else is over there had not gone in the first place Hussein would have killed thousands more of inoccent people.The west went over there because they belived Iraq had missiles that could reach them.Though they did not the West wen't over for a good reason anyway.You know why we throw back at them 10 times harder?Because they fly planes into our buildings for no reason killing thousands.They bomb our subways for no reason.They bomb our markets and more subways for no reason.They burn our house's for no reason.Muslim lives are worth 1 Christian life which is worth 1 Jewish life.
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Had this day been wanting, the world had never seen the last stage of perfection to which human nature is capable of attaining.
George Washington - March 15, 1783
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Cent
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 17:09 |
Dude, are you comparing 11/9 with what the West has done to muslim world? Your funny.
Estimated 30 000 people have been killed in Iraq only due to 11/9. how many died in 11/9? 3000?
Yeah, 10 muslim are worth 1 christian life... I forgot.
So please spare us the BS. What the muslim world does to West, you give back 10 times.
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They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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Red4tribe
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 17:02 |
Muslims are trying to change the west which they should not be doing.They should leave the West alone and I imangine the West would leave them alone if it weren't for September 11th,the Spanish subway bombs and bombs in india which just happened the other day.Many Muslims in Africa and the middle east feel we have had control of their lives for a long time and they do not like that.The west should not have great influence over the, nor should they have over the west but Al-Qaeda is not stopping it the right way.
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Had this day been wanting, the world had never seen the last stage of perfection to which human nature is capable of attaining.
George Washington - March 15, 1783
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Cent
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 16:42 |
Azimuth, you have a really good point.
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They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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Majkes
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 16:34 |
I don't mind if Muslims demand rights for them until it concerns my freedom rights. Freedom of the person is limited by freedom of the other person.
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kingofmazanderan
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 15:25 |
You make some very good points azimuth.
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azimuth
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 07:00 |
well if that Muslim Woman who wanted a segregated swimming pools is a CITIZEN of that country, then she is demanding what she think is right, regardless of her religion. and as a citizen of a democratic country she has full right to do so and also have rights to criticize the current rules and laws without breaking them of course.
every person would like to see the system in the country he/she lives in adopt the rules and regulations that person sees right.
also the word " the west" is generalizing a bit, i heard that there are states in the US which dont allow gambling and its illegal to gamble in them ( IS that Islamic influence?)
there are countries in the Islamic world which allow gambling and nightclubs and drinking and prostitution, ( is that western influence?)
so again every person would like to see a system that he/she is more comfortable with.
another example if the Western population in Dubai keep increasing, iam pretty sure that they at certain points would demand some rules and regulations to be changed. maybe they might ask for mosques in the areas they live in not to call for prayers via microphones ....etc.
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so that's personal decision of a citizen of a country.
but when a country thousands of miles away tries to change rules and regulations of other countries then its trying to change that country.
i dont see Islamic countries demanding Islamic laws in the US while we see the US demands changes in the Laws of Islamic countries.
the question of Are muslims trying to change the west is a naive question based on a personal decision of a woman living in the west.
while the question of Are many Western countries trying to change the Islamic world? is the question to be asked and the answer is simple its YES.
and please dont talk about Democracy, Islamic countries want democracy and the west dont want democracy for them. the West was and Is supporting dictators of the middle east and once these dictators become useless the west starts its BS propaganda of restoring democracy.
also Western system isnt the perfect systems nor the idol system for democracy.
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Northman
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 06:47 |
Of course we have to respect other cultures that we have welcomed to the country. Its perfectly normal here for organisations to reserve or rent a swimming hall just for the members for an hour or two.
I know Islamic organisations do this - and why shouldnt they if they believe thats right for them?
I see no problem with that.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 06:36 |
In my opinion if You go to a country You should follow its rules and custom and if You are not happy with that You should go somewhere else.
You are talking totally nonsense. even locals of countries dont accept all law, so they change it.
I didnot know, disliking some laws make you guilty. Plus love or leave mentality is totally fasism.
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