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Your favourite ancient relgion

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Poll Question: What is your favourite ancient religon and why?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
13 [25.49%]
4 [7.84%]
3 [5.88%]
8 [15.69%]
7 [13.73%]
1 [1.96%]
0 [0.00%]
5 [9.80%]
10 [19.61%]
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nikodemos View Drop Down
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  Quote nikodemos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Your favourite ancient relgion
    Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 04:56
Originally posted by NikeBG

Roman and Greek religions are definitely not the same. The Greek religion was largely "incorporated" into the Roman one, but it's not the only part of it. The Romans "accepted" quite a lot of other religions as well, like f.e. the Mithraism, the cult of Isis etc. It's basically something like Panteism and that's why I voted for it too...


Actually Mithraism and the cult of Isis were not initially Roman and i don't think that these cults belong to the ancient Roman religion.These cults originated from Middle East and because of the religious syncretism they were adopted by many pagans in the Roman world.
The Roman religion was quite similar to the greek religion but at the same time there were also differences.That's because the Romans were not only influenced by the Greeks of italy but also by the Etruscans.Thus many Etruscan rituals were a part of the Roman religion.I think that the gladiatorial games had initially a religious meaning and were performed to celebrate the memory of the dead soldiers.
Mithraism is definitely a seperate religion and i am surprised that there is no such choice in the poll.
If the term Roman religion means any religion that was adopted by  Romans throughout the Roman world then in this catch-all term christianism should be included too.If Mithraism is Roman why is Christianism not?
My point is that Mithraism,Christianism,the cult of Isis(Egyptian religion) are seperate religions.The Roman religion was the ancient religion of the Romans as it was during the Republican era.


Edited by nikodemos - 11-Nov-2006 at 04:57
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  Quote Ellin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 04:01
Don't know a great deal about other 'ancient' religions Cry, so can only really mention why I like the ancient Greek religion.

I like how the Greeks were always a "religious" people and no matter where they settled the first thing they built were temples.  They didn't have a God-complex and deem religion as unneccessary. 

I like the fact that there was a god to represent every aspect of life and death.  For eg, Poseidon was the ruler of the sea.  Hera, the protector of women and marriage, etc.

They had both male and female deities, therefore weren't discriminatory.

But foremost, I like how above all the 12 gods, the Greeks placed the "Unknown God", because they were aware of their own limitations and short-comings.  That is, this religion they conjured up, (which, just like other religions, is man's innate attempt at reaching God) was a figment of their own imagination and knew there was still a lot more to learn and discover about the true essence/nature of this higher power. They didn't claim to 'know-it-all.  This is why I think their transition to Christianity (=God's attempt at reaching mankind) was so fluid, and satiated that void.

Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

How many of these faiths survive to this day in some form or the other. Just curious.


The ancient Greeks held many religious festivals in honour of their gods.  The purpose of a festival was to please the gods and persuade them to grant the people's wishes.

These festivals continue in Greece today, but in commemoration of the Christian Saints.

People would also pray to the appropriate gods as they went about their daily life.  For eg. someone going on a journey would pray to Hermes..

The same applies to today, but supplication made to the appropriate Saint. 
One that comes to mind is St Nicholas, is the patron saint for sea-travellers.

The Anthesteria - a spring festival which was held in Athens each february.  The wine from the last harvest was put on sale and a statue of Dionysus (god of wine) was carried in triumph to his temple.  On the final day of the festival, each family prepared a meal for the spirits of the dead and left it on the altar in their house.

We have similar services today, whereby a memorial service is held at church, followed by a meal offering for the souls of the dead.

The ancients, believed the souls of the people who had led wicked or cruel existenses on Earth were sent to Tautarus, where they were condemned to eternal punishment.  And people who had led virtuous lives along with initiates of the mystery cults, were sent to Elysian Fields, a peaceful place filled with golden sunlight.  The people in between, were sent to the Asphodel Fields, a grey, boring place where the souls drifted around aimlessly in the shade, waiting for the offerings from the land of the living to cheer them up.

In accordance with Christian dogma of Hell, Heaven and [purgatory].

Funerals - when someone died, their relatives and friends wore black (Shocked , this even continues today) and women cut their hair short as signs of mourning.  The dead body lay in that state at home for a day, (today's wake) so that people could come to pay their respects.

Even after the funeral, the continued well-being of the dead depended to some extent on the care of the living.  Families made offerings to their ancestors on the anniversaries of their births and deaths, and at special festivals of the dead.  (still done today).



Edited by Ellin - 11-Nov-2006 at 04:03
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  Quote Xshayathiya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 00:49
Originally posted by Maziar

Why Persian stands with Babylon together? their beleives are very different.
Also i go for Persian ancient religion of Zarathustra.


Yeah, considering this is going to be your major, I wouldnt group Persian and Babylonian together. Babylonians were Polytheistsic Pagas, Persians were Monotheistic Zoroastrians.
"I like rice. Rice is great if you are hungry and want 2000 of something." - Mitch Hedberg
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  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 21:21

I am very interested in some religions of the Ancient world, such as that of the Greeks and the Egyptians.
However, by definiton, My 'favourite' religion of the Ancient world would be early Christianity.ie.The early church. I find the whole process in which it spread fascinating, as well as the content of Christianity as a monotheistic religion. Some of the figures of the early church like Paul of Tarsus, I have a lot of admiration for.

Approve


Edited by Knights - 02-Nov-2006 at 21:22
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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 11:36

According to the written sources, there was absolutely some form of tradition with wizards or shamans in Old Norse religion. They can be subdivided into three cathegories:

1. The Godir (plural, singular gode) was the "priest" who led the ceremonial banquets and sacrificial rites. I write "priest" because this was apparently not a person with exclusively religious functions, but a secular chieftain who was also responsible for hosting and leading the local cultic practice. We encounter these men (or maybe women, named gydja in singular) regularly in the sagas and they are the religious representatives of Old Norse paganism we know the must about.
 
2. The Seidmenn (plural, singular seidmann) were more like what we would describe as shamans or wizards, at least judging from the meagre information our sources give on them. They were known to conduct rituals that would impact the forces of nature or a person's health and fortune. During the Christianisation it seems the seidmenn were particularly stubborn in their paganism and that they were much feared by the converts.
 
3. The third group might just be the female equivalent of the seidmenn. In any case some of our sources mention a particular kind of old crone who could establish some form of contact with the "world beyond" and predict the fates of men through rituals, which seemingly consisted of reading supernatural signs by playing around with bone fragments and other magic trinkets. "The Greenland Saga" tells of such a woman, as does the Arab traveller Ibn Fadhlan who met a party of Vikings by the river Volga in the 9th century, he names her "the angel of death". Curious choice of name, but it does reinforce the theory that she was some sort of medium between this world and the next.
 
This is a much debated topic, and a book has been written exploring the traces of a shamanistic tradition in the Old Norse religion, but it's not available in English yet as far as I know.


Edited by Reginmund - 03-Nov-2006 at 08:09
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 08:01
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 04:15
Pinguin I don't disagree with any of that. But I was picking up on the use of 'shamanism' not 'paganism'.
 
The essence of shamanism, not surprisingly, is the shaman - an individual supernaturally endowed with the ability to contact and to some extent control the 'other world' and thus this one. Moreover the word 'shaman' indicates someone who attains his power through elevation to an ecstatic state.
 
This is different from someone who achieves wisdom through studying.
 
So what I was asking was whether Norse religion included shamans in this sense. I don't claim to know the answer.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 20:16
Originally posted by gcle2003

 I'll take your word for it. The question was genuine, not rhetorical.
 
Can you be more precise?
 
I'll try. Norse religion was part of the ancient religions of the Indoeuropeans that were nomadic tribes. They have a lots of believes similar to what you can find in all ethnic groups of the past that shared theirs. For example:
 
Sacred mountains, parallel worlds, sacred trees, human sacrifices, similar gods, etc.
 
Originally posted by gcle2003

That's not a common factor in early religions. The widest common thread is animism - the belief that animals, plants, and pretty well anything are conscious, willed beings as people are.
 
The belief in 'another world' and the belief that there are specially endowed individuals who can contact and manipulate it are relatively sophisiticated.
 
Yes, you are right animism is a very ancient believe associated with mankind from the beginning, but the 'another world' is as much ancient like that. After all people dies, and since you find offerings in tumbs is clear people of all ages used to believe theirs deaths went to another place. A place where they could be contacted by their shamans (druids, priests or whatever are called in any given society).
 
Norse also have those believes, and it was not uncommon they buried theirs chiefs in theirs ships with theirs personal things, theirs animals and some sacrificed slaves as well, all of which accompanied the chief to the other world.
 
Not only that, even in symbology you find similarities between different peoples, including the believes in dragons and other extraordinary creatures, like the one Vikings carved on theirs ships and that also can be found in the poles of the Seattles or in the stones of Mayans and other ancient cultures.
 
What I mean is that "paganism" is a set of believes shared by almost all mankind with regional variations and flavours of each ethnic group.
 
Pinguin
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 18:46
Originally posted by Styrbiorn

Originally posted by Aelfgifu

 
I have been studying Scandinavian Medieval culture as part of my masters. I must admit that I have not focused on women, as they are not part of my subject.
But things like that a marriage can be made without the consent of the woman involved and the knowledge that they could not inherit does not seem te be very female friendly.
 
This is not true. It may be correct that consent of the woman was not needed - but the consent of the man was usually not needed either. It did differ in times and areas, but women did inherit. Not equal share, but anyway. In the Middle Ages it was common that the daughters inherited half or a third of what the sons got.
 
 
I'm currently reading the new book on the Vikings (titled: The Vikings) by Magnus Magnusson and 4 others. On pg 25 it states that many of the marriages were arranged and the earliest marry age for girls was 12. On occasion women were free to choose their own husbands. They were also entitled to own property and inherit wealth in their own right. When divorcing she could even claim back her dowry and a share of the household goods.
 
On pg 27 it states " Considering the Viking woman's standing in society, it is suprising to discover that although she was entitled to attend the thing, she was denied the right to vote."


Edited by Friggsdottir - 01-Nov-2006 at 18:47
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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 18:38
Another good point, faith is of course just what I described.

Boy, people sure are handing'em to me tonight.
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  Quote Achilles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 18:13
what is faith then?
Der Erste hat den Tod,
Der Zweite hat die Not,
Der Dritte erst hat Brot.

Fur immer frei und ungeteilt
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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 10:22
Originally posted by Achilles

Reginmund, it is faith. I believe in my gods and you believe in yours
(or not). You dont have to go claiming something as false just becuase
the only "documentation" of the religion/mythology was written by
Christian authors. I would apprieciate it if you didnt go claiming my
beleives are wrong or stupid becuase my religion is based on sources
written by christians.


That's not faith, it's just naive stubbornness. Then again, that goes for all religions, so I guess you have a point.    
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 06:58
Originally posted by Aelfgifu

Nor is the fact that in stories the women are either the ones organising the trouble, or are the cause of it in another way...
 
Hmmm....
 
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 04:54
Originally posted by Aelfgifu

 
I have been studying Scandinavian Medieval culture as part of my masters. I must admit that I have not focused on women, as they are not part of my subject.
But things like that a marriage can be made without the consent of the woman involved and the knowledge that they could not inherit does not seem te be very female friendly.
 
This is not true. It may be correct that consent of the woman was not needed - but the consent of the man was usually not needed either. It did differ in times and areas, but women did inherit. Not equal share, but anyway. In the Middle Ages it was common that the daughters inherited half or a third of what the sons got.
 
Nor is the fact that in stories the women are either the ones organising the trouble, or are the cause of it in another way...
Well, when I hear women talk about their troubles it's usually not women who cause the trouble ;)
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  Quote Turk Nomad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 04:29
Originally posted by QueenCleopatra

What's that about? I haven't heard of it , can you elaborate more? Thanks!
İn Tengriism,there only one god.It's name is Kktengri(Skygod).Turks and Mongols believed this religion,today it is still living.Some of Turkey's Turkmen nomads(Yoruks),Turkish racists and some CA Turks,mongols still believing Kktengri.
 
İt is very ancient religion.
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 00:02
Originally posted by QueenCleopatra

Since this is the area in which I hope to specialise once I get my degree I thought it would be interesting to see what areas of Ancient religion and death rituals interested everyone. Include any interesting pictures and arcticles if you have them.
 
Nice topic Cleo!
 
The Inuit religion looks to the Aurora Borealis to find images of their family and friends dancing in the next life.
 
 
Inuit religion developed based on a system of rituals that were not complicated but considered absolutely necessary because the harshness and randomness of life in the Arctic ensured that Inuit lived constantly in fear of the uncontrollable, where a streak of bad luck could destroy an entire community, and to offend a spirit was to run the risk of having them interfere with an already marginal existence.
 


Edited by Hellios - 01-Nov-2006 at 00:03
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  Quote Achilles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 20:08
Reginmund, it is faith. I believe in my gods and you believe in yours (or not). You dont have to go claiming something as false just becuase the only "documentation" of the religion/mythology was written by Christian authors. I would apprieciate it if you didnt go claiming my beleives are wrong or stupid becuase my religion is based on sources written by christians.
Der Erste hat den Tod,
Der Zweite hat die Not,
Der Dritte erst hat Brot.

Fur immer frei und ungeteilt
-always free and undivided-

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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 13:47
Originally posted by Friggsdottir

Women were important in Germanic & Norse society, it would probably be a good topic to study just for Women's History Studies.
 
I have been studying Scandinavian Medieval culture as part of my masters. I must admit that I have not focused on women, as they are not part of my subject.
But things like that a marriage can be made without the consent of the woman involved and the knowledge that they could not inherit does not seem te be very female friendly. Nor is the fact that in stories the women are either the ones organising the trouble, or are the cause of it in another way...
 
But of course, there is a lot I do not know, so I might well be mistaken. Can you elaborate a bit on the importance of women in Norse society?

Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears.
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 12:54
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

Originally posted by Achilles


Norse mythology/religion survives in the form of Asatru (Norse heathanism, the old way, Odins way, etc..). Some people put Asatru in the same category as Neo-paganism and Wicca, but as a follower of Asatru i feel differently


Good. What is its philosophy ?
BTW Asatru means Friend in Our languages.
 
Well, in this case it's a compound, asa-tro, literally meaning "aesir belief". The form "asatruar" as a descriptions of its followers it is funny, since it would mean either "[several] aesir beliefs" or genetive case. In Scandinavia the term is mostly used about the old religion, not about the revived version (though I've seen that too).
 
---
 
And yes, though you can base a new religion on the writings about the old gods, there is no way whatsoever to reconstruct the beliefs of the ancient Scandinavians. As said, sources are written a very long time afterwards by Christians, and are sometimes quite contradictive.


Edited by Styrbiorn - 31-Oct-2006 at 12:58
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  Quote QueenCleopatra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 11:33
What's that about? I haven't heard of it , can you elaborate more? Thanks!
Her Royal Highness , lady of the Two Lands, High Priestess of Thebes, Beloved of Isis , Cleopatra , Oueen of the Nile
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