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What if Vienna were conquered?

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  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What if Vienna were conquered?
    Posted: 03-Sep-2005 at 16:58
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  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2005 at 10:04

Originally posted by Emperor Barbarossa

I agree with Heraclius, what ambition would the Turks have in America? If they would even get that far, which I doubt.

I may adviece you to search after Melungeons.

 

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  Quote Nagyfejedelem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2005 at 07:31

If Vienna had been conquered, Hungary wouldn't have conquered by the Holy League (Austria, Venice, Poland and Russia).

So, Ottoman Turks could reach Vienna only twice, when most of the Hungarians were the side of Turks: in 1529, when the king was Jnos Szapolyai, enemy of Ferdinand and in 1683, after Imre Thkly, who was appointed to king by the sultan won the Habsburgs in an insurrection.

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  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2005 at 19:38
I agree with Heraclius, what ambition would the Turks have in America? If they would even get that far, which I doubt.

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  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2005 at 19:05

Maybe America would be discovered by Turks, and a Turkic country of US would rule the world today.

 I think that's possibly the craziest thing ive heard in a long LONG time.

  



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  Quote Red_Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2005 at 18:41

1)Wouldn't have EURO Union now

2)I must be with chalma

3)bad days for europe

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  Quote Degredado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2005 at 18:20

Maybe America would be discovered by Turks, and a Turkic country of US would rule the world today.

But wasn't America discovered in 1492? Weren't the Aztecs conquered in the fifteen twenties, around the time the first siege failed?

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  Quote Mangudai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2005 at 09:53

Originally posted by aknc

so you are saying?

That the habsburgs did risk battles with the turks 

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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2005 at 09:49
so you are saying?
"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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  Quote Mangudai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2005 at 09:04
Originally posted by aknc

The Holy Roman empire, France, Italy, Spain and Britain would still be left to deal with

Britain was not that strong at the first siege,france was our ally,And the holy roman empire did not even risk a battle with us.

Spain was very powerful,but i don't know about italy

The empire sent a force in 1532 that effectively stopped the osmanly army to advance on Vienna. The Habsburgs also fought against turks in Tunis

/M

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2005 at 05:53
Originally posted by iskenderani

The red apples ...the wolf and little Red Riding Hood..... Or how a fairy tale becomes a tradition...Interesting from a cultural view.

Isk.

I dont know anything about any little riding hoods. But I think most nations have some ancient believs somehow saved until today...

 

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  Quote iskenderani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2005 at 05:48

The red apples ...the wolf and little Red Riding Hood..... Or how a fairy tale becomes a tradition...Interesting from a cultural view.

Isk.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2005 at 05:36

Originally posted by Jalisco Lancer



Then the europeans would be too busy fighting agaisnt the turkish. The conquest of America would be postponed or be taken by the turkish.

Maybe America would be discovered by Turks, and a Turkic country of US would rule the world today. So we wouldnt be writing in English in these forums, but writing in Turkish, speaking Turkish as a common language all over the world since it would be the main international language like English is now. 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2005 at 05:28
Originally posted by Yiannis

Originally posted by Oguzoglu

For Ottomans, to reach the red apple was only possible with beating Rome (Romans, also Greeks were called Romans). The same situation of the idea of conquering the west was also for Huns and others. 

That's very interesting. There's a folk tale in Greek storytelling that mentions that Emperor Constantine Paleologus, did not die when Constantinople was taken (his body was never found, remember?). Instead he was hidden in a secret chamber of Agia Sophia from where he will emmerge some day to chase the Turks back to the Red Apple Tree, where they came from!

So, it's like your story but backwards. Probably the 15th century Greeks have heard this Red Apple thing by the Ottomans, but didn't quite understand it's meaning. The red apple, in the Greek story, is back where Turks have started. I wonder what it symbolizes and why...

This "Red Apple" myth came from the ancient creation myths of the ancestors of Oguz. The red apple tree is a mythological legend of Turkic creation and its belief still survives btw even Muslim Turks. Even the Islamic Ottoman state owned these believes of ancient creationism, deriving from a wolf, and the red apple. Maybe these goals and common believs btw Turkic people are the main bonds btw us.

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  Quote iskenderani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2005 at 05:27
Originally posted by Tobodai

Originally posted by iskenderani

[QUOTE=Tobodai]

One cannot fully appreciate history if one only knows what did happen, what didnt happen is just as important, sometimes even more so.

How can we possibly appreciate what truly has happened without appreciating what hasnt happened?  There would be no such thing as a descisive battle had not the alternative had the potential to make a drastically different world.We can not truly appreciate the facts of our past if we merely accept what has happened as a foregone conclusion. 

Tobodai .... my argument is about speculation .History , does NOT speculate ....History is based on FACTS...

Let me give u an example ...

Vienna falls into Turkish hands....

1) The rest of the European nations unite , defeat Turkey and recapture Konstantinopolis...Probability one....Can u elaborate what the future of the whole world would have been IF this probability worked ???

2) The European nations DO NOT unite and as a result Europe slowly falls to Turkish hands and it is islamised ...Can u elaborate in what would be the face of the world today ??

3) U r aware of the inventions of Heron....in Alexandria , who practically invented the steam engine and was using steam to open and close great doors of temples or rise of statues from the floor....How long would have taken to some one to apply such an engine to a chariot ?? This would mean the start of the First Indyustrial Revolution 1500 years BEFORE...If in 300 years from the First Ind.Rev.we have advanced so far , what would have happened IF we had this Rev. 1500 years ago ??But the Bibliotheka Alexandrina , was burned to the ground .... What would have happened to the WORLD IF SHE HASN'T ????

In all these questions i have put , the answers are multiple and so many that u would never be able to draw conclusions from the hypothetical questions that produced all the answers.

No , Tobodai ....History examines FACTS and what results these facts produce , negative or positive to all . A historical fact is like a sone that falls into the calm waters of a lake ...It produces ripples which tend to dissapear , as the efects of the fact are passing through time. But , until their dissapearance they r there for u to examine them...

The rest , whatever is based in speculations ...is a historical novel...

Isk.



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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2005 at 21:10
Originally posted by iskenderani

Originally posted by Tobodai

One cannot fully appreciate history if one only knows what did happen, what didnt happen is just as important, sometimes even more so.

Sure....The phrase is correct and it makes sense....and it is applicable in one undeniably established fact : Vienna did not fall....

From this point u can examine what happen or not to the defenders and what happen or not to the attackers and decide which was more important.

But establishing a completely fictious hstorical point and trying from there to speculate on what might have happen or not to the defenders and to the attackers , leads nowhere , as the variables are too many to manipulate...

Good for a history novel , but not for a history research.

Isk.

 

How can we possibly appreciate what truly has happened without appreciating what hasnt happened?  There would be no such thing as a descisive battle had not the alternative had the potential to make a drastically different world.We can not truly appreciate the facts of our past if we merely accept what has happened as a foregone conclusion. 

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I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2005 at 11:31
Originally posted by snake2k5

I reckon its fair to say that the Ottoman's would have had their hands tied with the amount of countries they were taking on. What really is wierd is that it took Ottomans two mass invasions into Vienna and both failed while Napoleon only took a month or two against and he was walking through Vienna not to mention the Austrians had Russian and British help.


Yeah but that was almost 2 centuries afterwards so artillery and communications were better.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2005 at 09:21
I reckon its fair to say that the Ottoman's would have had their hands tied with the amount of countries they were taking on. What really is wierd is that it took Ottomans two mass invasions into Vienna and both failed while Napoleon only took a month or two against and he was walking through Vienna not to mention the Austrians had Russian and British help.

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  Quote Gazi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2005 at 14:57

It depends...

If it was the second siege I suppose that wouldnt have stopped the decline of the Empire.Maybe they would be able to cling on to their European territories for another century but not much else.

But if the first had succeeded (which was less likely to happen than the     second  one)then Suleyman might have sent the Austrian scientists back to Istanbul (Suleyman wasnt dumb or extremely religious he knew the value of scentists and science)They might have helped Ottoman science and might have prevented the decline.Politically  at that time  france was enjoying financial privileges in the Eastern Mediterrainean which was in Ottoman hands so I doubt they would have attacked.Britain was fighting spain, Italy had problems of its own and Russia was fighting the Tatar Khanates. So only the Holy Roman Empire,Austria and maybe Poland would try to attack the Turks who were quire strong at the time  I guess it wouldnt have been bad for us but I am not sure about Europe....



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  Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2005 at 12:57


Then the europeans would be too busy fighting agaisnt the turkish. The conquest of America would be postponed or be taken by the turkish.
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