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Iranian41ife
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Topic: Islam. Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 11:47 |
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"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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Leonardo
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 12:04 |
Wafa Sultan, the today-most-hated woman by the islamists al over the world
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Iranian41ife
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 12:07 |
i find it funny how the religious man that was supposed to debate with her said that he wouldnt because she was blasphemous. isnt he proving her point?
shes not necessarily bashing islam, she is trying to open here eyes up to the modern world.
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"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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Theophos
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 15:54 |
This woman, Wafa Sultan, said it all (see how the scholar refrained from debating with her, hiding in the blasphemy accusation?). There's nothing like facing the problems instead of turning our the faces to the other side.
There's obviously something wrong with Islam. No offense taken, but let us have a look at its founder, Muhammad. A man who preaches war and vengeance and declares himself entitled by God, sould be frowned upon.
If we understand Muhammad, we will understand most of Islam, which is his product.
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"I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me."
--John 14:6
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Mortaza
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 16:04 |
peh, she is lying.
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Zagros
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 16:10 |
Originally posted by Theophos
This woman, Wafa Sultan, said it all (see how the scholar refrained from debating with her, hiding in the blasphemy accusation?). There's nothing like facing the problems instead of turning our the faces to the other side.
There's obviously something wrong with Islam. No offense taken, but let us have a look at its founder, Muhammad. A man who preaches war and vengeance and declares himself entitled by God, sould be frowned upon.
If we understand Muhammad, we will understand most of Islam, which is his product.
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Always funny to hear a Christian preach about intolerance and bash other religions.
Fundamentalist Muslims interpret Islam in the same way medieval / middle ages Christians interpreted Christianity, so your religion is not one bit better.
Edited by Zagros
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Cent
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 16:29 |
I agree with her on a level. But is all she says true? No, Jews like all others have commited crimes.
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They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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ArmenianSurvival
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 16:29 |
2 things I concluded by watching this video:
1. I agree with that woman
2. The 2nd guy she was talking to was blind or stupid. Probably both.
Edited by ArmenianSurvival
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Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance
Քիչ ենք բայց Հայ ենք։
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Mortaza
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 16:41 |
I agree with her on a level. But is all she says true? No, Jews like all others have commited crimes.
She have selected memory, she only remember bad things made by muslims.
She say, you have no right to name others(what they did not want), this was done by everybody not only muslims.
Just an example, you can find a lot example like this.
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Theophos
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 18:55 |
Originally posted by Zagros
Always funny to hear a Christian preach about intolerance and bash other religions.
Fundamentalist Muslims interpret Islam in the same way medieval / middle ages Christians interpreted Christianity, so your religion is not one bit better. |
Hmm, so let's compare the founders of both: Jesus and Muhammad. Let's see who was the warlord and who was the pacifist, who advocated vengeance and who advocated forgiveness and love and see the differences for ourselves.
There are good muslims in spite of Islam. There are bad christians in spite of Christianity. That's the difference.
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"I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me."
--John 14:6
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Halevi
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 19:37 |
Originally posted by Zagros
Originally posted by Theophos
This woman, Wafa Sultan, said it all (see how the scholar refrained from debating with her, hiding in the blasphemy accusation?). There's nothing like facing the problems instead of turning our the faces to the other side.
There's obviously something wrong with Islam. No offense taken, but
let us have a look at its founder, Muhammad. A man who preaches war and
vengeance and declares himself entitled by God, sould be frowned upon.
If we understand Muhammad, we will understand most of Islam, which is his product.
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Always funny to hear a Christian preach about intolerance and bash other religions.
Fundamentalist Muslims interpret Islam in the same way medieval /
middle ages Christians interpreted Christianity, so your religion is
not one bit better. |
***
Precisely. The main problem is that Islam - as traditionally
interpreted - does not leave much room between State and Mosque...
which is not to say Islam can't, or has never been, modified in order
to allow for such a division, and/or reconciliation with Western
democratic values.... moreover, up until a few hundred years ago,
Christianity had a simliar problem... the resurgance of politically
organized religiousity in the USA is reminicent of this era...
I think Wafa Sultan is quite courageous to say what she is saying...
and there is a lot of truth in it... if there is to be any mass
reformation of mainstream Sunni and/or Shie Islam, more people will
have to speak up like this ...
...they will have to develop a critical mass, and then reconcile their
agendas with their cultural heritage, so as to make it immensely
appealing to the majority
...what is missing, of course, from Wafa's commnedable diatribe, is the context -
namely, colonialism, and the West's history of manipulating the Muslim
world so as to secure access to scarce resources, and
further ideological agendas. (Not to say the Muslims woudnt do it too,
were they in such a position of power...)
Also, as a Jew, i feel perfectly comfortable saying that we, too, have
inflicted quite a bit of pain on the Muslim world, even though we, of
course, have our own very compelling self-justifications for our
actions... Wafa Sultan's assertion that we are, and have always been,
non-violent, is rubbish.... but, shes trying to make a point, which is
well taken: Islam needs to change.
Edited by Halevi
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"Your country ain't your blood. Remember that." -Santino Corelone
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azimuth
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 19:54 |
she is narrow minded, talking like Islam is a new religion just came out without any achievements or anything,
she had lots of errors and misleading information in her speach.
just examples, she said islam divided people to muslims and non-muslims, thats just an ignorant statment, people are and never been a ONE unity, or one race or one community, having differences make them divided as groups who share similar thoughts or similar race or belives.
its not like people were united and islam came and divided them, in the contrary islam united all people without looking at their skin color or backgrounds, putting categoris such as muslim or non-muslim in ONLY to identify whats are their duties and rights and the relations between themselvs and their rights in islamic community, its exactly like Citizen and non-citizen. its everywhere. this woman made it sound like racisim.
she talked about knowledge and science as its a product of the West, its like we muslims are bunch of retards who never acheived anything in those fields !! from her speach she saying its like muslims rejects science and technology and reject or should reject anything from the non-muslims!! thats not true, if you looked through history you'll find many muslim rulers had advisors and wise men who werent muslims among the muslims ones.
she is for sure a closed minded Islamophobic , and knows how to mislead. eh but then the world is full of people like her, relgious and secularists.
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Halevi
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 20:20 |
Originally posted by azimuth
she is narrow minded, talking like Islam is a new religion just came out without any achievements or anything,
she had lots of errors and misleading information in her speach.
just examples, she said islam divided people to muslims and
non-muslims, thats just an ignorant statment, people are and never been
a ONE unity, or one race or one community, having differences make them
divided as groups who share similar thoughts or similar race or belives.
its not like people were united and islam came and divided them, in
the contrary islam united all people without looking at their skin
color or backgrounds, putting categoris such as muslim or non-muslim in
ONLY to identify whats are their duties and rights and the
relations between themselvs and their rights in islamic community,
its exactly like Citizen and non-citizen. its everywhere. this woman
made it sound like racisim.
she talked about knowledge and science as its a product of the West,
its like we muslims are bunch of retards who never acheived anything in
those fields !! from her speach she saying its like muslims rejects
science and technology and reject or should reject anything from the
non-muslims!! thats not true, if you looked through history you'll find
many muslim rulers had advisors and wise men who werent muslims among
the muslims ones.
she is for sure a closed minded Islamophobic , and knows
how to mislead. eh but then the world is full of people like her,
relgious and secularists.
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Why do you think she is saying what she is saying?
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"Your country ain't your blood. Remember that." -Santino Corelone
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azimuth
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 20:26 |
same reason like many who like to mislead others, such as;
attracting attention, become famouse, justify her actions and way of life, or
if she is not the above she maybe just ignorant and lake of knowledge about Islam and its people.
i dont know her and didnt know her before today, not sure who is she or what position she is holding or want to hold.
what i know is that her speach in that video had losts of misleading information, because she want to mislead or because she is ignorant i dont know.
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ramin
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 20:41 |
Originally posted by azimuth
she is narrow minded, talking like Islam is a new religion just came out without any achievements or anything,
she had lots of errors and misleading information in her speach.
just examples, she said islam divided people to muslims and non-muslims, thats just an ignorant statment, people are and never been a ONE unity, or one race or one community, having differences make them divided as groups who share similar thoughts or similar race or belives.
its not like people were united and islam came and divided them, in the contrary islam united all people without looking at their skin color or backgrounds, putting categoris such as muslim or non-muslim in ONLY to identify whats are their duties and rights and the relations between themselvs and their rights in islamic community, its exactly like Citizen and non-citizen. its everywhere. this woman made it sound like racisim.
she talked about knowledge and science as its a product of the West, its like we muslims are bunch of retards who never acheived anything in those fields !! from her speach she saying its like muslims rejects science and technology and reject or should reject anything from the non-muslims!! thats not true, if you looked through history you'll find many muslim rulers had advisors and wise men who werent muslims among the muslims ones.
she is for sure a closed minded Islamophobic , and knows how to mislead. eh but then the world is full of people like her, relgious and secularists.
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seconded
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"I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon"
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Halevi
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 23:48 |
Originally posted by azimuth
same reason like many who like to mislead others, such as;
attracting attention, become famouse, justify her actions and way of life, or
if she is not the above she maybe just ignorant and lake of knowledge about Islam and its people.
i dont know her and didnt know her before today, not sure who is she or what position she is holding or want to hold.
what i know is that her speach in that video had losts of misleading
information, because she want to mislead or because she is ignorant i
dont know.
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I agree that she either intentionally omits - or is ignorant of - the record of the west in actually forestalling secular democracy in the region, and supporting either heavy-handed non-democratic regimes, or anti-communist islamic insurgencies from Morocco to Pakistan.
That being said, i think she honestly believes what she has to say
about the difficulty mainstream Islam presents to the modern Muslim
believer. Moreover, i think she honestly does not believe in the
supernatural, and would like not to be killed, let alone rebuked, for
saying so.
Why do you think that is,
and
what do you think about her 'right' to be able to discuss the
shortcomings of contemporary Islam without being denounced, threatened
or killed?
Edited by Halevi
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"Your country ain't your blood. Remember that." -Santino Corelone
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erci
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Posted: 19-Mar-2006 at 00:35 |
She's not a secularist but an atheist or simply a christian although she says she's not.I don't think she should be given credit of what she says about Islam cos she just tell the one side of the story.Atheists bash Christianity as well
Edited by erci
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azimuth
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Posted: 19-Mar-2006 at 01:08 |
Halevi, well i spent like 30 minutes gathering info about her and found out that she is a writer in a site called Annaged, http://www.annaqed.com/index.aspx
that site is full of Anti-Islamic articls and they claim to be secularists but it sound like they are only Bashing Islam and promoting Christianity and Judasim.
to me it looks like they are hiding behind the "Secularists" claim, and i dont think they are what they say they are.
i went checking each section of that site and didnt find much usefull thing, its like 95% of what they say is related to islam . there is nothing about their own idology about other things in the world.
in one of the articls they are complementing sharon and saying "All arabs need is great generals like sharon so instead of hating him they should make him as a role model", i guess that tells many about who they are
dont bother readin "about us" link they didnt give much info, they are good at hiding their real goals behind other goals.
----
about her disussing that without being killed, well she is doing so and it seems like the west is happy about her and made her so famouse i guess she is not sleeping the night from the exitment lol.
but she wont be appreciated in many places in the Middle east, if she discussed things in smart way she can, but accusing the religion and all its followers as being terrorests and Islam is dying and remarks like this wont get her anywhere in many places the Middle east.
she has nothing but accusations and now ive known about her more i would say she is doing the Misleadin thing in purpose and NOT ignorance.
she and her fellow writers there select what they want from the Islamic History and manipuate it as per their agenda. putting fragments of facts mixed with loads of their own BS.
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jfmff
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Posted: 19-Mar-2006 at 01:33 |
Well... the life of Muhammad is not a fragment of fact in islam.
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azimuth
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Posted: 19-Mar-2006 at 01:59 |
yea they didnt put "the life of Muhammad" in there, they put fragments and put their own explanations about the fragments they chose. an explanations based on shallow thinking aka BS.
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