Conquest of Mexico

I would consider the leadership skills, although his supreme belief in Catholic would have almost killed his tries. And ofcourse, playing the part of peaceful persons...

He had alot going for him. I think its important to add to the list that he had a couple of good translators for the whole area. One was a women named La Malinche who spoke many languages of the area and was Cortes main translator with Motecuhzoma. There was a male translator as well that helped him but I cant recall his name.

Add also that the severe tribute system the Aztecs had was not very well liked in the area and contributed greatly to Cortes ability to gain allies. The Tlaxcalans had been at war with the Aztecs for a century and they saw the Spanish as the force that could break the Aztec rule of the region. This blessed Cortes with quite a large amount of allied forces during the conquest of Tenochtitlan.

Though I'm not sure of the importance of the role there was also a small pox epidemic that helped thin out the Aztec ranks. I've read that as much as 80% of the city was wiped out from it but I'm not sure if thats very accurate.

Originally posted by Majkes What do You think was the most important factor that led Cortez to conquer Aztecs?

The fact that The Aztecs did not possess the spirit of fighting, resistance...

Hence 500 Spaniards could take the whole Mexico. I don't actually count it as a real ''conquest''

If The Spaniards had tried to conquer The Balkans and The Near East, they would have learned  what a real conquest means..




Edited by TheDiplomat - 10-Oct-2006 at 08:52

Originally posted by Majkes What do You think was the most important factor that led Cortez to conquer Aztecs?     2. Legend about a God with white skin who will come from the East to regain his throne. .

Moctezuma acting more assertive might have postponed the conquest for a while. But because of desease and hostility of subjugated and enemy tribes the Aztec empire would have fallen sooner or later anyway.

Question that has never been answer to my satisfaction in Mexico:

How were the Tlaxcalans subjugated? There were a lot more Tlaxcalans than Spaniards, and and it would not have been hard to destroy them.

Normally the story ends with the Aztecs losing, but there are a lot of messy threads that are not explained :)

Originally posted by TheDiplomat ... The fact that The Aztecs did not possess the spirit of fighting, resistance... Hence 500 Spaniards could take the whole Mexico. I don't actually count it as a real ''conquest'' If The Spaniards had tried to conquer The Balkans and The Near East, they would have learned  what a real conquest means..

The conquest of the Aztec Empire is possibly the most remarkable military feat, the most incredible come-from-behind win, in the entirety of warfare from the end of the Middle Ages to the beginning of the first World War. I highly recommend the chapter in Victor Davis Hanson's Carnage and Culture about it. He explains it all very well.

So many things had to go right for this to happen. With the removal of any one, it could not have been done.

The leadership of Cortes is foremost. None other could have had the ruthlessness, the charisma, the intelligence, and the military acumen to execute the whole project. Witness the fact that Cortes left Tenochtitlan to fight off Narvaez's competing claim -- the conquest of Mexico was not just fighting Aztecs, but also other Spaniards -- and that while he was gone, Alvarado made a giant mess of things in Tenochtitlan. He simply did not have the ability to hold everything together like Cortes did. That Cortes came back, was utterly defeated, yet managed to re-achieve his aims is a testimony to his brilliance.

The European diseases cannot be underestimated. These weakened Aztec and ally alike, but they decimated the Aztec defense. However, as this only reduced Spanish odds from around 1400 to 1 to 1000 to 1, this alone would not have guaranteed success.

Majkes makes a wonderful point. The Aztecs did not fight to kill. They much preferred to knock somebody out, tie them up on the battlefield, and sacrifice them to their gods later. They held Cortes in awe and would have loved to have sacrificed a man of such power to their gods. Twice Cortes was unhorsed and would have been surely dead fighting any other enemy, but due to this custom of the Aztecs he and many other Spaniards lived.

(The assertion that the Aztecs did not possess the spirit of fighting is wrong. They themselves conquered all Mexico, before the Spanish did. And the way they resisted - Spanish chroniclers write of acts of extreme heroism, human wave charges into Spanish steel, that the Aztecs did, and by weight of sheer numbers, nearly succeeded on several occasions.)

Martin Lopez was, besides Cortes, the person most responsible for the victory. He was a Basque, and most importantly, he was a shipbuilder. It was with his skills that the small ships were made, transported overland, and taken to the canals of Tenochtitlan. The Spanish had learned the hard way on La Noche Triste that without control of Lake Texcoco no one could take the city. Those ships that Lopez made, with the help of Juan Cabrillo, ensured that Cortes had a chance of taking Tenochtitlan.

The ancient Aztec legend is worth something, but not much. It got Cortes into the city the first time and ensured that he was not killed the moment he landed in Mexico. His divinity wore off after a couple of months, and when he came back after dispatching Narvaez, the Aztecs were in no mood to worship him.

The horses. Cortes had only eighty-four horsemen, but each of these was priceless to his army. Once, while escaping on La Noche Triste, a group of Spanish infantry was surrounded by Aztecs and being killed. Twelve horsemen charged ten thousand Aztecs. Spanish steel cut right through Mexican cotton; the infantry were saved.

I could go much farther. Cannons, the seizing of Montezuma, the Mexica interpreter, the alliance with the Tlaxcalans, all in their own way were essential to the taking of Mexico. Many people think that Cortes came and ran roughshod all over the Aztecs. He didn't. It's nearly a miracle he won. He destroyed Tenochtitlan not because of vindictiveness but because of necessity - the Aztecs resisted with such tenacity that the only way to clear a sector of enemies was to level it. It's a remarkable campaign, one of the greatest history has seen.

Originally posted by Timotheus The conquest of the Aztec Empire is possibly the most remarkable military feat, the most incredible come-from-behind win, in the entirety of warfare from the end of the Middle Ages to the beginning of the first World War. I highly recommend the chapter in Victor Davis Hanson's Carnage and Culture about it. He explains it all very well.So many things had to go right for this to happen. With the removal of any one, it could not have been done.The leadership of Cortes is foremost. None other could have had the ruthlessness, the charisma, the intelligence, and the military acumen to execute the whole project. Witness the fact that Cortes left Tenochtitlan to fight off Narvaez's competing claim -- the conquest of Mexico was not just fighting Aztecs, but also other Spaniards -- and that while he was gone, Alvarado made a giant mess of things in Tenochtitlan. He simply did not have the ability to hold everything together like Cortes did. That Cortes came back, was utterly defeated, yet managed to re-achieve his aims is a testimony to his brilliance.The European diseases cannot be underestimated. These weakened Aztec and ally alike, but they decimated the Aztec defense. However, as this only reduced Spanish odds from around 1400 to 1 to 1000 to 1, this alone would not have guaranteed success.Majkes makes a wonderful point. The Aztecs did not fight to kill. They much preferred to knock somebody out, tie them up on the battlefield, and sacrifice them to their gods later. They held Cortes in awe and would have loved to have sacrificed a man of such power to their gods. Twice Cortes was unhorsed and would have been surely dead fighting any other enemy, but due to this custom of the Aztecs he and many other Spaniards lived.(The assertion that the Aztecs did not possess the spirit of fighting is wrong. They themselves conquered all Mexico, before the Spanish did. And the way they resisted - Spanish chroniclers write of acts of extreme heroism, human wave charges into Spanish steel, that the Aztecs did, and by weight of sheer numbers, nearly succeeded on several occasions.)Martin Lopez was, besides Cortes, the person most responsible for the victory. He was a Basque, and most importantly, he was a shipbuilder. It was with his skills that the small ships were made, transported overland, and taken to the canals of Tenochtitlan. The Spanish had learned the hard way on La Noche Triste that without control of Lake Texcoco no one could take the city. Those ships that Lopez made, with the help of Juan Cabrillo, ensured that Cortes had a chance of taking Tenochtitlan.The ancient Aztec legend is worth something, but not much. It got Cortes into the city the first time and ensured that he was not killed the moment he landed in Mexico. His divinity wore off after a couple of months, and when he came back after dispatching Narvaez, the Aztecs were in no mood to worship him.The horses. Cortes had only eighty-four horsemen, but each of these was priceless to his army. Once, while escaping on La Noche Triste, a group of Spanish infantry was surrounded by Aztecs and being killed. Twelve horsemen charged ten thousand Aztecs. Spanish steel cut right through Mexican cotton; the infantry were saved. I could go much farther. Cannons, the seizing of Montezuma, the Mexica interpreter, the alliance with the Tlaxcalans, all in their own way were essential to the taking of Mexico. Many people think that Cortes came and ran roughshod all over the Aztecs. He didn't. It's nearly a miracle he won. He destroyed Tenochtitlan not because of vindictiveness but because of necessity - the Aztecs resisted with such tenacity that the only way to clear a sector of enemies was to level it. It's a remarkable campaign, one of the greatest history has seen.

I got a book on the Nahua accounts of the conquest. In it, it says how Tenochtitlan was not destroyed, but abandoned when it was sacked. After a few years, many of the former inhabitants went back to their houses, which still stood there.   

its his treachery acting and intrige