History as no one else knows!

For class no. uno!

Please explore your history books, and the inter-net or intra-net, and find out all you can about one man, whose life should fill volumes of historical books!

His name, or some of the variations of his name are;

John de Brienne, or John deBrienne, or Jean of Brienne, or Jean deBrienne, or King of Jerusalem, Crusade Leader, King of the Latin Kingdom of Constantinople, and leader of a Papal Army, etc.!

Boy, with all of those titles, and positions, you should be able to give us all a mess of sites concerning his age (DoB, Dod, marriages, etc.), life, acts, etc.?

As well as his relations? His politial connections, etc.?

One might well think that this little test might be easy?

So, if you have the time, try it?

Our currently accepted history should have tons of information about these important events of the Christian World?

Please do not fill up too many pages with your results?

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 22-Jul-2010 at 14:09

Source Material mentioning John de Brienne and 5th-8th Crusades

< ="-" ="text/; =utf-8">< name="ProgId" ="Word.">< name="Generator" ="Microsoft Word 10">< name="Originator" ="Microsoft Word 10"> Recueil des Historiens des Croisades: Historiens Occidentaux 5 Vols (Farnborough: Gregg, 1967).
Recueil des Historiens des Croisades: Orientaux, 5 Vols
Recueil des Historiens des Croisades: Lois, 2 Vols
Recueil des Historiens des Croisades: Grecs, 2 Vols
Recueil des Historiens des Croisades: Armenians, 2 Vols
The Chronicle of Ibn al Athir 3 Vols, tr. DS Richards (Aldershot: Ashagte 2008)
The Wars od Frederick II against the Ibelins in Syria and Cyprus, by Phillio of Novara, tr. J.L. La Monte, New York 1936
Crusader Syria in the 13th Century, The Rothelin Continuation of William of Tyre, tr. Janet Shirley (Aldershot: Ashgate, 1999).
The Crusades a Reader, eds., SJ Allen and E Amt (Peterborough: Broadbview Press, 2003).
Crusade Propoganda and Ideology, Christopher Maier (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2000).
The Deeds of Pope Innocent III, Anonymous
The Decree's of the Ecumneical Councils Vol. 1 Nicea 1 - Lateran V, ed. Norman Tanner (Georgetown University Press, 1990)
Christian Society and the Crusades 1198-1229, ed. Edward Peters (Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press, 1971).
Ayyubids, Mamlukes and Crusaders, Ibn al Furat, tr. U and MC Lyons and J Riley-Smith (Cambridge, 1971)
Gerlad of Wales, Opera
The Annals of Roger of Hoveden, tr. HT Riley 2 Vols (London 1853)
Roger of Wendover's Flowers of History, 2 Vols, tr. JA Giles (London, 1849)
Matthew Paris, English History 1235-1237 2 Vols, tr. JA Giles (London 1853)
The History of William of Newburgh, tr. J Stevenson (London 1856)
Selected Letters of Pope Innocent III Concerning England 1198-1216 eds. CR Cheney and WH Semple (London 1953)
Histoire de Phillipe Auguste by Rigord, tr. E Carpienttier (Paris 2006)
Calendar of Charter Rolls Vol. 1 Henry III 1226-1257
Calendar of Entries in the Papal Registers - Papal Letters Vol1 1198-1304, ed. WH Bliss (London 1893)
The Crusades: Idea and Reality, L and J Riley-Smith (London: 1981)
Catalogue des Actes de Phillipe Auguste, Leopold Delsile (Paris 1856)
Chronique d'Ernoul et de Bernard le Tresorier, tr. Mas Laitre
From St Francis to Dante, GG Coulton (London 1906)
Regesta Regni Hierosolymitani, R Rohrict
Iohannis Codagnelli, Annales Placentini in the MGH.SS Vol. 23
Salimbene de Adam, Cronica 2 Vols (Bari 1966)
Tabulae Ordinis Theutonici, E Strelhke (Jerusalem 1975)
Lettres de Jaques de Vitry, RBC Hugyens (Leiden, 1960)
Cartulaire de L' Eglise su  Saint Sepulcre de Jerusalem, de Roziere (Paris 1849)
Willbrand of Oldenburgh
Joinville, Life of St Louis
Joinville in Chronicle of the Crusades by Penguin
Oliver Scholasticus, The Siege of Damietta
The Chronicle of the Morea
Sermons od Jaques de Vitry and Eudes de Chattreux
Historica Diplomattica Fredrici Secundii

In addition to the above there is also the bottomless mine of information that can be located in the MGH (Monumenta Germaniae Historica) which is so vast its pointless to posy ot all here, I suggest you google it.

Also the Patralogia which is again a rather vast collection, though its volumes 214 onwards that will generally be of use

The RHGF (Recueil des historiens des Gaules et de la France) again quite large with lots of things to pick out from it many many tomes


I have mentioned the Receuil de Historiens de Croisades (RHC) The following is an incomplete list of its contents from Wikipedia.

Historiens Occidentaux

Five volumes from Occidental or "Western" historians (often abbreviated RHC Oc or RHC Occ)

1. William of Tyre, Historia rerum in partibus transmarinis gestarum
2. William of Tyre continued; Latin and Old French continuators of William of Tyre
3. Peter Tudebode, Gesta Francorum, Historia Peregrinorum, Raymond of Aguilers, Fulcher of Chartres, Gesta Francorum expugnantium iherusalem, Secunda pars historiae iherosolymitanae, Gesta Tancredi, Robert the Monk, letters of Stephen II, Count of Blois and Anselm of Ribemont
4. Baldric of Dol, Guibert of Nogent, Albert of Aix
5. Ekkehard of Aura, Caffaro di Rustico da Caschifellone, Walter the Chancellor, Historia Nicaena vel Antiochena, Theodori Palidensis Narratio profectionis Godefridi ducis ad Jerusalem, Passiones beati Thiemonis, Documenta Lipsanographica ad I. bellum sacrum spectantia, Primi belli sacri Narrationes minores, Exordium Hospitalariorum, Historia Gotfridi, Benedict Accolti, Li Estoire de Jerusalem et d'Antioche, Itineratio di la gran militia a la pavese, Fulco, Gilo of Paris

[edit] Lois

Two volumes of the Assizes of Jerusalem and Cyprus

1. John of Ibelin, Geoffrey le Tort, James of Ibelin, Philip of Novara, La Clef des Assises de la Haute Cour du Royaume de Jerusalem et de Chypre, Le Livre au Roi
2. Livre des Assises de la Cour des Bourgeois, Abrégé du Livre des Assises de la Cour des Bourgeois, Bans et Ordonnances des Rois de Chypre, 1286-1367, Formules, Appendix: Documents relatifs à la successibilité au trone et à la régence, Document relatif au service militaire, Les Lignages d'Outremer, various charters

[edit] Historiens Orientaux

Four volumes from Eastern historians (often abbreviated RHC Or)

1. Tarikh of Abu al-Fida, al-Kamil at-Tarikh of Ibn al-Athir
2. Ibn al-Athir continued, Badr al-Din al-Ayni
3. Baha ad-Din ibn Shaddad, Ibn Khallikan, Abd al-Latif, Ibn Jubayr, Kitab an-Nujum az-Zahirah, Kitab mirat az-Zaman, Kamal ad-Din, at-Tarikh al-Atabakiya of Ibn al-Athir
4. The Book of Two Gardens by Abu Shama (d. 1267)

[edit] Historiens Grecs

Two volumes from Greek historians

1. Michael Attaliata, Michael Psellos, Anna Comnena, John Cinnamus, Nicetas, Joannes Zonaras, Michael Glycas, Nicephorus Gregoras, Ephraemius, Ioannes Phocas, Neophytus Presbyter, George Acropolites, Liber de Syria Expugnata, Liber de Jerusalem Expugnata
2. Notes to Part 1, Nicetas Choniates, Theodorus Prodromius

[edit] Historiens Armeniens

Two volumes from Armenian historians (often abbreviated RHC Darm or RHC Doc. Arm.)

This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it.

1. Matthew of Edessa, Gregory the Priest, Basil the Doctor, Nerses Shnorhali, Gregory Dgh'a, Michael the Syrian, Guiragos of Kantzag, Vartan the Great, Samuel of Ani, Hayton of Corycus, Bahram of Edessa, Hetoum II of Armenia, Constable Sempad's Chronicle of the Kingdom (also spelled Smpad)
2. Nerses of Lambron, Smbad the Constable, Mekhithar of Dashir, various charters

[edit] References

I have for the most part given the English translation versions (where they exist) I can also provide a fair few original Latin and French versions but for here on this forum it wouldbe a bit of a wate ot time to give 5 versions fo the same work.

So what exactly is you point?

No I cant turn it off, I typed it out and it resulted in the above. They arent links to websites they have simply turned out in that manner. The Gods of the Internet Forum deemed that it should be so.

Funnily enough.........I have discussed with various professors the lack of monographs upon John de Brienne, whom is a rather remarkable individual by all accounts. Nobody has yet to publish a work on the man, no epic biogrpahy of his life, which is odd considering his achievments. It currently remains the heading of an academic paper I intend to write, as it came up as a tangent to actual research for other more pressing matters.

The problem is that John, unlike other contemporaries didnt have an account of mhislife written for him or about him, at least one that has survived. Unlike Frederick II, William the Marshall, John of Ibelin etc. The source material for his life and achievements are numerous but spread about everywhere. One has to do an awful lot of digging (which nobody as of yet has done). Hint to any budding Phd's out there, theres a niche. But the archives of Champagne are quite rich. It is just unfortunate that John de Brienne hasne recieved any attnetion by historians yet. Perhaps its something for me to do in the future. Yet its not that surprising, there remains huge swathes of history (regions/individuals/themes/processes/economies/politics/social/cultural) that have yet to be accounted. People often think they are, or that 'surely they must be' but quite often....not the case. I found such a hole, so decided to write a PhD on it.

Far be it from me at this time or instance to give the man a biogrpahy, the wiki article is quite comprehensive, but the following is missed by wiki, there are some gaps

Accurate date of birth remains unknown and debated (not as though he is the only medieval personality to suffer from that flaw) 1143/1170 if memory serves. There are records of 2 John de Brienne's, some believe the former, others the latter. This for the most part is the mistake of past historians, confusing 2 seperate men, and then having the notion stick. I favour the later for when John dies in the late 1237 he would be a most venerable gent indeed to have lived from the former date, as opposed to the more reasonable latter.

It mentions nothing of his relationship with Phillip II Auguste. Sources Indicate that John was by no means a great or important magnate but one suitable enough for the task of the Kingdom of Jerualem and one Phllip wouldnt mind losing.

It mentions nothing of his relationships with the prominent Ibelin family. Which wasnt good, they didnt get along, John was something of a stronger king than they had imagined, they left the mainland and took up residence on Cyprus, building up their families influence there.

It does mention his marriage to an Armenian Princess but not her attempts to poison Yolande and John stopping her. Nor his activities in Armenia on acquiring her.

It mentions the 5th Crusade but doesnt really go into detail of the arguments between John and Pelagius. John saw Damietta as being part of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, Pelagius disagreed. John minted his own money, but up his banners, was the head of the military council. Pelagius as legate checked him at every turn. John in his anger abandons Damietta for a few months and has to be persuaded to return from Acre.

It gives nothing on the Mt Tabor and Jordan campaigns of the beginnign of the 5th Crusade in whic he is again quite active, leading assaults up hill, and determining plans, holding councils with the other crusade leaders, and ultimately calling off the siege.

It gives a brief overview of his relationship with Frederick II, that he was well pleased with the match for his daughter initially. All the promises Frederick made to allow him to remain as King until the end of his days, the promises of help for Outremer. How Frederick mocked him and insulted him after the wedding, how Yolande came to her father to tell him of how mean and neglectful frederick was and of how he shunned her for his mistresses. John confronted him, and then went to seek assitance in Rome, being so good enough to campaign againt Frederick in Apulia and the North in the Emperors absence.

It doesnt tell of the lavish parties that were thrown for him on his travels through Europe in the 1220's, or of the mone Phillip II left him, which Frederick then stole.

As for his activities in Constantinople, there I can tell you less as John fell out of my purview there so I paid little attention to the man after 1229/30. Other than the negotiations for Constantinople start in 1229 but he doenst turn up till 1231. Again to a very popular reception.


All of the above, both in mine and wiki, can be found in the pages of the source material given in my previous post. And that is just the source material I have encountered him in, in my own tangentially related research. Should I actually reseacrh the man exclusively, I have no doubt that there will be much much more. The MGH/RHGF/PL and archives of Champagne are  vast.


Im afraid thats all I can recall for now.

Thank you so much DreamWeaver! In a manner, you have proven my point! That is, while you think that a lot of material has yet to be be uncovered and produced into print, the fact remains, that here is a fampous King of two famous kingdoms, and there has yet to be no PHD candidate to write a good review of his life and times!

It makes the head spin, does it not?

You see, DW, the fact is that such material probably does not exist! What we have already seen (for the most part) is mostly what is available to be found!

Now, of course one might well query other places, events, personages, etc., and find some more interesting facts?

I think that I have even done so?

It also seems, that if I am not correct, then you can make yourself somewhat famous, via making a modern historigraphy, of this personage and his times! Congradulations Dr. DW!

BTY, I have a copy of the article concerning his DOB! It is on JSTOR!

I will try to post it, but probably I would have to convert it into a word doc, and send it to you privately?

My best regards!

P.S., regarding my second challenge, I feel you will again come up against a mostly "brick wall?" But, you will have to be the judge!

Perhaps two honors await you?

We already know that you both "Dream" and "Weave!"

Edited by opuslola - 24-Jul-2010 at 18:51

OK, per the JSTOR, post, assuming you have access, the site is at;

http://www.jstor.org/pss/2849122

If you really have access to this site, at your university, then you will be able to read a good article, that challenges our modern "consensual" attitude towards John, et, al!

I did recieve the link yet. but havent had time to read all th wy through it yet.

We are not left with a befreft amount of information concerning John, there is enough. More than enough considering other contemporaries. It is merely scattered about, rather than conveniently residing in one or 2 places. You have to do a bit of leg work to track it down, but there is enough about. Problems that one encounters when researching John, like his dtae of birth, are very common problems. He is not alone in that respect.

As to the 5th Crusade, many of the sources were written by participants.  Some of them native to the Levant.

Babylon, just a term applied to Cairo by Western writers, biblical references and all. Muslims most certainly didnt refer to it as such.

Well there are several invasions routes from the East, the bets and most obvious is by ship, on the coast at Damietta.

Typos 

Damietta was an easier nut to crack (as hard as it was) than Alexandria would have been.

The two have been confused and melded into one in the past. If you were to read older histories they would often give hims the earlier date, making him a most remarkeable man and of an extreme age for the time when he finally died.

No Jerusalem was not in his possession. The term Kingdom of Jerusalem was still used, though in reality it was more the Kingdom of Acre (as Runciman entitles one of his volumes on the Kingdoms history) not until Frederick II would it be returned in 1229, and then lost again in 1244.


So which King of Jerusalem was mostly an Egytpian Vassal then?

No.

I fail to see how you can connect the making of a peace treaty with vassalage to Al-Kamil. Im sure your reasoning will be highly entertaining...but no. Peace Treaties were hardly anything new. The Trearty of Jaffa had been continuosuly renewed since 1192, but the Kingdom of Jerusalem was at no point a vassal. Nor was it after 1229. Frederick secured a peace for 10 years, and secured Jerusalem, thus fulfilling his crusading vow and as an excommunicate Emperor who was then crowned in the Holy Sepulchre achieved a fantastic propoganda victory. But he's not a vassal. He didnt refortify the entirety of Jerusalem in those 10 years, but he did fortify some of it and placed a garrison there. That it wasnt enough effort was one reason for the major criticism he then suffered. But he wasnt a vassal. When the treaty expired the Barons Crusade arrived. Jerusalem itself wasnt lost again until some years after the end of the treaty, in 1244.

It is trivial becaue your debating semantics that arent even relavent. There are not ties of vassalage between Al-Kamil and Frederick II, no personal oaths of loyalty and subserviance, Frederick's entire career shows that he serves no man. Also even if your argum,ent were true and had any basis, which it doesnt, simply being granted permission to enter does not a vassal make.

The city itself was returned to the Franks by the treaty in February 1229, it was in their posession again. Frederick only enters the city in March 1229 after it has been returned. Frederick didnt need permission to enter the city, because it was his as King of Jerusalem. He didnt need to ask permission of Al-Kamil because it was no longer under muslim control. It ws his city, under his control. Not vassalage.