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Anujkhamar 
Chieftain 
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1027 |
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Aryan IndiansPosted: 24-Jul-2006 at 17:49 |
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I'm glad to hear that. I had to write that just incase though.
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mamikon
Sultan 
Joined: 16-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2200 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 24-Jul-2006 at 23:35 |
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does it matter if an indian is aryan or not? Does being "aryan" give
the indian some special status in the society? and whatever makes one
think that being an "aryan" is for some reason better than not being an
"aryan"...
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Aarya
Janissary 
Joined: 17-Jul-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 28 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 02:27 |
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The "aryan " word got its worth from being associated with India.
The "special" you are refering is accquired by the aryan term for its association with India.. List the greatness of "Aryan" nothing really..." It is a generic term referign to nobleness. But only present day people of countries that are devoid of any kind of civilization and acheivemtns or whose civilizatrion has been wiped out beyond recoganisation by Islam and Christianity want its appropriation to them. "Aryan" accquired that special status not becuae of their blue eyes fare color, but precisely the lofty acheivemtns in the realms of philosophy, culture, science, astronomy, arts, by the Indians. A fare color, blue eyed man will still be called a barbarian than a learned scientific cultured dark person.. People dont understand that, and basic concepts they seem to ignore is that physical features tend to evolve depending on the place where u live... We care a damn whether we are refered to as Aryans or negoroes or native Americans or mongoloid.. What we pride and cherish is the acheivements of our ancestors and forefather.....who gaev us what the forfathers and ancestors of other countries didnt gave their people... |
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Aarya
Janissary
Joined: 17-Jul-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 28 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 03:07 |
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if as u claim that Buddhism was widely prevelant in pakisthan, then where does the question arise of coversion to Isalm from Buddhism( in which their isnt any sort of caste system.) U should know that fact that Pakisthan is a Buddhist bastion as my friend Teledemuz claims, but how ironical that there are no buddhist from pakistha what does it suggest where have they gone.. Did they convert to islam, if they did what were the causes. u dont tell me the philosophy of Islam and the ethical life of Mohamamd( as per ur beleif) were very tempting for the Buddhist to convert(hahahhah) Islam's spread in india was forcefull and through opression with discriminatroy laws, that is well known why would u want to paint a glossy picture of the murderes spread of Isalm.. May be some would have converted like what is happening in the prison of US, where isalm gives a gtreat chance to jsutify the acts of brutality if it was for the cause of Allah. Read ur prophets biogrpahy, if it is jusdged with universal standards of ethics and morality, he will not even deserve to be called a good person forget abt prophet hood.
Any inscription or any literature of that time testifying ur opinion that People took Buddhism becoz of Hindu caste System.... They were mere constructions of 19th century missionaries..... A religion which promotes slavery and whose prophet himslef took slaves here comes arguing that Islam sopread becoz of race system... Are u guys blind not to note Muslims traded in slavery and they were primary traders...of this art.. Buddhism was categorised as religion only in recent times, it is a philosophy in India and if u need clarifications may u contact Dalai Lama. Buddha is a god in India for his contribution but he is a villa and worst than villan ion islamic countries... Muslims start questioning yourselves , ur heaven is full of ignorants, illeterates and uncivilized because of ur beleif... While ur hell is populated by the Buddha, Krishna, Snakaracharya, jewish noble laurets and scholars from the infedel world....Eevn ur hell will exceed the grace of ur heaven by the presence of these intellectuals only again to rake ur jealousy and wanting Allah to bestow Hell .... |
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Anujkhamar
Chieftain
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1027 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 06:27 |
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This topic is not about the Caste system. If you look through the forum there is already a topic on it.
Around the time of the White Huns Bhuddhism was in the decline, with people beginning to convert to Hinduism again. This was short lived due to the invasion of Muslim empires. In reality it is alot more complicated than this, this is just to sum it up in a paragraph.
The Buddha is not a God. He was a prophet. |
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TeldeInduz
General 
Joined: 07-Mar-2006 Location: Paraguay Online Status: Offline Posts: 857 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 06:58 |
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Not really. The Archaemid (Persian) Empire did cross the Indus, at least into West Punjab. Sindh also became incorporated into the Persian Empire, probably later.
 It's not impossible for Zoroastrianism to have been a main religion for a very short period, but it was probably just a mixture of religions, like Zoroastrianism, Hellenism, Vedic worship and later Buddhism. But the religion wasnt Hinduism. You can see this from the Mahaharata (about 400 BC) quote..
Those (Arrata) regions are without virtue and religion. No one should go thither. The gods, the pitris, and the brahmanas, never accept gifts from those that are fallen, or those that are begotten by Shudras on the girls of other castes, or the Vahikas (ancient Pakistanis) who never perform sacrifices and are exceedingly irreligious.'
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m08/m08044.htm (12th line from the end)
Sacrifices werent performed in Zoroastrianism, Buddhist or Hellenistic worship I think. Edited by TeldeInduz - 25-Jul-2006 at 07:08 |
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Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre.................
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TeldeInduz
General
Joined: 07-Mar-2006 Location: Paraguay Online Status: Offline Posts: 857 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 07:24 |
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Funny stuff..Anyway..I dont think Hitler or Stormfront activists have Indians in mind when calling themselves "Aryan". Aryan isnt very strictly defined, and one or two of their civilizations were perhaps advanced, but the Aryans didnt enter India till very recently, and in few numbers, so it must be just you making the association between Aryan and India. Edited by TeldeInduz - 25-Jul-2006 at 07:43 |
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Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre.................
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Aarya
Janissary
Joined: 17-Jul-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 28 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 08:11 |
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Sorry,
teledemuz....... I wish to know about what u think of Hitler and
Stormfront had in mind when they refered themsleves to Aryans. I
do'nt care if they were referingto the Indians...but you should not
fail to note the European philosophers like Francois Marie Arouet Voltaire
(1694-1774), Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860),
Johann Wolfgang
von Goethe (1749-1832),
Frederich von
Schlegel (1772-1829), Niels Henrik David Bohr, (1885-1962)ohn
Archibald Wheeler,
(1911 - ), Herbert
George H. G. Wells (1866 -1946),William Butler Yeats
(1856-1939) etc.......
Do u have any idea of who the above peopel were. I didnt give the full list of people, They are considered pioneers in their respective countries, and do u have any idea of what the influence of their works have had...They have one thing in common, their writings about India and its philosophy was a prime reason for the later invention of Aryan term to appropriate these acheivemtns to them which will liberate the Imperialist of their colonisation of India..... U'll really leave ur breath if I started quoting them about India, so I'll not they all were pioneers and world renowned not like obscure scholars whom the muslims put forward to claim secret science in Quran etc.....
anuj their is a lot of difference between prophet and Avatar...Do u know that...I guess u would have.....Now Buddha is considered an Avatar in Hinduism. Do u know what the term avatar accords to that person.. Krishna was an Avatar, Rama was an avaatar they were not prohets..Krishna, Rama are gods in India, if u dont agree that, I am a Hindu so my opinion counts more than u scholarship Hindu beleifs... As buddh is an avatar, He is a god for Hindus...It is another matter if he is not worshipped dedicatedly as some other avatars, so do the avatars of "Kurma","varaha",""matsya","vamana",..these avatars are not as much worshipped too.... But find me one hindu who doesnt fold his hands before Buddha |
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TeldeInduz
General
Joined: 07-Mar-2006 Location: Paraguay Online Status: Offline Posts: 857 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 08:36 |
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You're simply going off on one now. I doubt it'll get through, but I'm not interested in your quotes on Hinduism, I can find many quotes on many different things. What I'm looking for is for you to show me a link to a quote where someone says that Indian philosophy and achievements gave rise to the term Aryan/Aryanism?
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Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre.................
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Aarya
Janissary
Joined: 17-Jul-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 28 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 08:48 |
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Then u might
look for some Hindu fundamentalist scholar or heavily influenced person
to find quotes regarding " Indian philosophy and acheivements gave rise
to the term Aryan/Aryanism"..
Even asking such things is absurd because it cant be proven at all..so whats the point.... It seems u are copletly ignorant about the background in whcih the aryan and aryanism came into propagation in Europe ...... All those scholars hardly mention anything about Aryanism and Aryan. these terms were invented by scholars who were influenced by political reasons and funded for political reasons.... Max Muller is one such scholar.. Now his scholarship was influenced by political ideology and missionary ideal is a well know fact, first he categorised Aryans as race and then he retreated saying that Aryan was a grouping based on llinguistic basis... The elites of Europeans were greatly influenced by the writings of those scholars and political reason took over and in a bid to build natioanlism Hitler used this term Aryan as made the germans beleive who were already influenced by those scholars that it is the Aryans who acheived all this and it we rightly deserve to rule the World.... |
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Aarya
Janissary
Joined: 17-Jul-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 28 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 09:02 |
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Voltaire quotes
" We have shown how much we (Europeans) surpass the Indians in courage and wickedness, and how inferior to them we are in wisdom. Our European nations have mutually destroyed themselves in this land where we only go in search of money, while the first Greeks traveled to the same land only to instruct themselves." " I am convinced that everything has come down to us from the banks of the Ganges, - astronomy, astrology, metempsychosis, etc." " It is very important to note that some 2,500 years ago at the least Pythagoras went from Samos to the Ganges to learn geometry...But he would certainly not have undertaken such a strange journey had the reputation of the Brahmins' science not been long established in Europe..." source: The Invasion That Never Was - By Michel Danino and Sujata Nahar p. 12 - 13 and 18 and 90 - 91 Refer to Voltaire, Lettres sur l'origine des sciences et sur celle des peuples de l'Asia (first published Paris, 1777), letter of 15 December 1775. and Voltaire, Fragments historiques sur l'linde, p. 444 - 445. He found that India was the home of religion in its oldest and purest form. He described India as a country "on which all other countries had to rely, but which did not rely on anyone else." He also believed that Christianity derived from Hinduism. He wrote to and assured Fredrick the Great of Prussia that "our holy Christian religion is solely based upon the ancient religion of Brahma." Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860), German philosopher and writer. He was one of the greatest philosophers of the 19th century. He was the first Western philosopher to have access to translations of philosophical material from India, both Vedic and Buddhist, by which he was profoundly affected. Counted among his disciples are such thinkers as Nietzsche and Wittgenstein, as well as Sigmund Freud, who takes a large part of his psychological theory from the writings of Schopenhauer. No other major Western philosopher so signalizes the turn towards India, combined with a disenchantment with the European-Christian tradition. He proclaimed the concordance of his philosophy with the teachings of Vedanta. His contribution to the propagation and popularization of Indian concepts has been considerable. (source: India and Europe: An Essay in Understanding - By Wilhelm Halbfass p. 436). Schopenhauer became acquainted with the thought of the Upanishads through a Latin translation from Persian by a Frenchman, Anquetil Duperron. His eulogy is well known. "The Indian air surrounds us,
the original thoughts of kindred spirits.....And O! how the mind is here washed
clean of all its early ingrafted Jewish superstition! It is the most profitable
and most elevating reading which is possible in the world." "How entirely does the Oupnekhat (Upanishad) breathe throughout the holy spirit of the Vedas! How is every one, who by a diligent study of its Persian Latin has become familiar with that incomparable book, stirred by that spirit to the very depth of his Soul! (source: Harvest Fields). "From every sentence (of the Upanishads) deep, original and sublime thoughts arise, and the whole is pervaded by a high and holy and earnest spirit...."In the whole world there is no study so beneficial and so elevating as that of the Upanishads. They are destined sooner or later to become the faith of the people."Schopenhauer, who was in the habit, before going to bed, of performing his devotions from the pages of the Upanishads, regarded them as: " It has been the solace of my life -- it will be the solace of my death." (source: The Discovery of India - By Jawaharlal Nehru Oxford University Press. 1995. pg 92 and The Upanishads Translated for the Modern Reader By Eknath Easwaran Nilgiri Press. 1987 p. 300 and Outlines of Hinduism - By T. M. P. Mahadevan - p.30). He anticipated later speculations with his claim that Christianity had "Indian blood in its veins" and that the moral teachings of the New Testament had their historical source in Asia beyond Israel: "Christianity taught only what the whole of Asia knew already long before and even better" (source: Oriental
Enlightenment: The encounter between Asian and Western thought - By J. J.
Clarke p.68-69). He also remarked: "How every line is of such strong, determined, and consistent meaning! And on every page we encounter deep, original, lofty thoughts, while the whole world is suffused with a high and holy seriousness." (source: cited in German in Upanishaden: Altindische Weisheit (Upanishads: Ancient Indian Wisdom) - By Alfred Hillebrandt (Dussseldorf-Koln, Germany; Diederichs Verlag, 1964 p. 8).He spoke of India as the 'fatherland of mankind' which 'gave the original religion of our race,' and he expressed the hope that European peoples, 'who stemmed from Asia,...would re-attain the religion of their home.' He believed that the Upanishads, together with the philosophies of Plato and Kant, constituted the foundation on which to erect a proper philosophy of representation. It was the Upanishads' analysis of the self which caused Schopenhauer to stamp them as " the product of the highest human wisdom". He dedicated himself to this task, producing his magnum opus, The World as Will and Representation, in 1819. This is what he says in this book: "We, on the contrary, now send to the Brahmans English clergymen and evangelical linen-weavers, in order out of sympathy to put them right, and to point out to them that they are created out of nothing, and that they ought to be grateful and pleased about it. But it is just the same as if we fired a bullet at a cliff. "In India, our religions will never at any time take root; the ancient wisdom of the human race will not be supplanted by the events in Galilee. On the contrary, Indian wisdom flows back to Europe, and will produce a fundamental change in our knowledge and thought." source: The World as Will and Representation - By Arthur Schopenhauer Volume I, & 63 p. 356-357). "According to me, the influence of Sanskrit literature on our time will not be lesser than what was in the 16th century Greece's influence on Renaissance. One day, India's wisdom will flow again on Europe and will totally transform our knowledge and thought." Schopenhauer, had extracted from Indian philosophy its contempt for the mere intellect. He admitted extracting his philosophical outlook from the Vedanta and attempting to weld "empirical realism" with transcendental idealism." "Schopenhauer went on from there to vindicate Indian philosophy's rightful place in the world.." He even went so far as to express pleasure at the continuous failure of West-Christian proselytism in Asia and added: "Our religions will never at any time take root; the ancient wisdom of the human race will not be supplanted by the events in Galilee. On the contrary, Indian wisdom flows back to Europe, and will produce a fundamental change in our knowledge and thought." His anti-Christianism was largely based on a fierce anti-Biblism; .....he attributed systematically to subtle influences originating on the "holy-banks of the Ganges." (source:
The
Soul of India - By Amaury de
Riencourt p 274-275). The Upanishads came to Schopenhauer as a new Gnosis or revelation. "That incomparable book," he says, "stirs the spirit of the very depths of the soul." (source: The Legacy of India - edited by G. T. Garratt p. 32). Schopenhauer was fond of saying that the first intuition of the work he was to do came to him while reading these texts, of which he was later to say that they had been his lifes consolation. (source: Yoga and the Hindu Tradition
- by Jean Varenne p. 186 - 187). 
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Aarya
Janissary
Joined: 17-Jul-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 28 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 09:07 |
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Now do u need some
Noble lauretes, Atomic physcists, and scietists famous and pioneers,
all world renowned. DO u want me quote them, it is their propagation of
the acheivemtns of the Hindus and Indians that led the the invention of
the Aryan invasion theory that gave the political and missionary
ideologues of britishers to steal and approprita Indias acheivemtns to
outsiders ans thus justfyini their colonilism saying even the locals
were one time invaders.....
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TeldeInduz
General
Joined: 07-Mar-2006 Location: Paraguay Online Status: Offline Posts: 857 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 11:01 |
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Everything you just posted I just skipped past. Why? Because I did not ask you to post quotes on Hindus, I even said specifically I'm not interested in quotes on Hinduism in a previous post, I can find the same for Buddhism, Sikhism, Christianity, any religion. What I did ask was for a quote saying that Indian philosophy and achievements gave rise to the term Aryan/Aryanism
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Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre.................
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TeldeInduz
General
Joined: 07-Mar-2006 Location: Paraguay Online Status: Offline Posts: 857 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 12:10 |
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The Rig Veda actually doesnt appear to be very related to Hinduism either. It was written about 1000 BC somewhere in the Indus Valley (Pakistan area). One verse tells of the eating of cows..
11 Let us serve Agni with our hymns, Disposer, fed on ox and cow,
Who bears the Soma on his back. Rig Veda, XII, 43, 11
Hellenism isnt too far off what Harrapan migrants were practising going by the Rig Veda. Edited by TeldeInduz - 25-Jul-2006 at 12:12 |
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Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre.................
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Digvijay
Pretorian 
Joined: 08-Jul-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 194 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 14:59 |
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You keep going in circles. Unless you find out who Mihirlkula was and his religion you are evading the issue. |
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Digvijay
Pretorian
Joined: 08-Jul-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 194 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 15:09 |
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Digvijay
Pretorian
Joined: 08-Jul-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 194 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 15:17 |
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Digvijay
Pretorian
Joined: 08-Jul-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 194 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 15:20 |
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Digvijay
Pretorian
Joined: 08-Jul-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 194 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 15:25 |
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Digvijay
Pretorian
Joined: 08-Jul-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 194 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 15:33 |
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Top
Conclusions
Materials and Methods
Almost everything you have posted has come from the Mahabharata which was written 300BC - 500 BC. 
hopefully everyone here will see that day.
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