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Curmudgeon
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Joined: 30-Nov-2005
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Topic: A new nation emerging Posted: 10-May-2006 at 14:49 |
I needn't, but I want to!
Language: http://www.villagevoice.com/arts/0031,lafarge,16942,12.html (courtesy of zompist bulletin board)
Religion: Islam, one of the greatest unifying movements in world history, was riven in its infancy by the rift between shi'a and sunni. Christianity, another, was fractuous before it even got established and once it was establlished, Christiandom split between Rome and Const. and then again between Protestant and Catholic. But why were they such bitter enemies ?
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Cezar
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Posted: 10-May-2006 at 15:40 |
www. = the eve
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Ponce de Leon
Caliph
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Posted: 10-May-2006 at 16:27 |
Maybe we will become a global nation out of neccessity.
"If" and this is a big if, we colonize places not on earth and in space, time will come and those colonies too will become distant from their earth origniatiors. If we have many of these space nations starting to seperate from Earth there may be a need for earth to unite under one leadership to protect itself from it's "new neighbors"
---but maybe thats just my sci-fi imagination
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Guests
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Posted: 11-May-2006 at 09:32 |
Becoming a global nation is simply not possible. Consider how selfish humans can get. Even if world leaders agree on one thing, its people may not. As communities get bigger and bigger, personality and character is lost in the crowd. It becomes harder and harder to achieve a desired morality. Instead, this thing called a society is birthed which can only operate with the big people on top, and the little people below.
This idea is far-fetch'd, but such a peaceful unselfish environment does exist. Maybe more exist, but one i know of is a kibbutz community in Israel. It is close to harbouring a communist idealogy. Like a global nation, it is an idea. People cannot survive in large numbers.
The kibbutz is a rural kind of lifestyle, where everyone does their part. Money is not a problem. Yes, wealth is shared. Basically everything there is free, but everyone STILL does their part. It is a very close community and the life they live is not exactly that of a slum. Hearing about it would raise your eyebrow in slight doubt due to how "utopian" it sounds. Members of this kibbutz committee are not made up farmers. Aircraft pilots are some of them.
Just imagine if such a lifestyle would become the backbone of a whole nation. Wonderful? If crime still exists in the smallest nation, what makes you think everyone will play by the rules. Its just like a family. A family is one of the most selfless entities that exist in this world. Imagine if you have a big family, and each of your siblings marry to other big families, who also have siblings who are married. It becomes easier for petty disagreements, friction and lawsuits to follow.
The problem here is numbers. Humans have a tedency to be selfish. Especially in large numbers. The main cause, i would say, is significance. A huge crowd gives anyone insignificance. Having no significance, makes the actions you do insignificant. Take the internet for example. What are the things you would so easily do or say, that you would not in real life?
Edited by RedSama
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Dampier
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Posted: 11-May-2006 at 12:24 |
Originally posted by pegasusdi
Welcome to the scene of 1984 |
Just call me Winston....
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Northman
Tsar
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Posted: 11-May-2006 at 12:43 |
In 1947, how many people would think peace between the nations of Europe possible 60 years ahead? ...noone would think it possible. Are we still holding grudges towards the Germans for WWI and WWII ...the answer is no. I can promise all Germans here, Denmark wont invade Germany.
Many people today, would claim that the Balkan conflict, ongoing for centuries up to present day, will never settle. Let me reverse the question this time. If you lived in 2070, sixty years from now - do you think there could be another war between nations on Balkan?
My best guess would be no. Give it a couple of generations more, a stronger/bigger EU, or even better - a stronger UN - (or similar international organisation). No nation with a wish to be considered civilized and enjoy the prosper of trading with the rest of the world, could survive being agressor in such a conflict. That said - I'm no fan of EU in its current construction - but it has potential to grow better - and currently I think its a major factor to maintain peace in Europe.
Even the former (but fairly recent) threat of China becoming an agressive superpower is crumbling. China is building its growing wealth on a wide spectre of international connections and trade. And why? - to start WWIII? - I dont think so.
What is left to cause trouble and conflict? - the Israeli/Palestinian issue - and of course, the religious fanatics regardless of belief/orientation. But those issues are two eggs from the same basket.
To some extent, I can understand (on a logical level) how the fanatic islamists can mislead and intimidate less educated people to believe anything they are told and mis-interpreet the scriptures to serve their fanatic and insane hunt for Islamic world domination. Their time is limited - AE is a good example of why.
On the other hand, I have much more trouble understanding how the western world, and USA in particular, can continue to allow the likewise fanatic Christians and Jews to lobby the US administration to the extent it is happening. But then again - this admistration has its base in rich and major industries - and conflicts makes good revenues for those. 2792 lives were lost on 911 - and today the casualties of the coalition forces in Iraq are 2652 PLUS approx. 4000 Iraqi security forces and civilians. Pete Seegers song comes to mind.... "When will we ever learn"
The sooner we (all) realize that the relationship with Allah/God is a personal matter, - and the sooner we are willing to separate politics and religion, the sooner we have a chance for peace.
I'm not predicting a world of peace - but I refuse to give up hope. (blame it on old age - if nothing else)
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 11-May-2006 at 21:37 |
A global nation, akin to conquering the world. Every Civilisation players dream.
I have often wondered whether it would be possible to unite the world,
and I think that if you were to do it, you would need some exceptional
circumstances.
1) You need 2 empires, possibly 3, not one. These empires would need to
give the appearance of hated enemies, while secretly working together
to achieve the goal of conquering the world. This means that one empire
can invade a country, and if it is defeated, that country will fall
under the hegemon of the other empire. "Your enemies enemy is your
friend"
2) You need some very cunning rulers, who do not need to worry about
being overthrown ruling those empires. They also need very long
lifetimes, if not more than one.
3) You need to understand HOW to occupy or control each piece of land.
Example in Afghanistan you need to use a soft indirect method. Not do
what the English or Russians did and just throw in troops.
and the sooner we are willing to separate politics and religion, the sooner we have a chance for peace. |
This for example is a must in Europe, but a must not in other places.
As curmudgeon said, Islam is one of the greatest unifing forces in
history. If your going to conquerer the world, you need all the help
you can get.
4) You need to be rigidly even handed and obey all your treaties. Take
the example of the mongols, You knew that if you surrendered to the
mongols you would be left alone, but if you resisted them you would be
butchered. If the mongols had butchered towns that did surrender, no
town would've surrendered without a fight.
5) You have to be paitent
6) Once all places on earth are under the control of one or the other
of the empires, these 2/3 empires can unite. Maybe form a confederacy
with an oligarchic government or something.
This global government would probably not last very long before all
hell broke loose. But you would've done it, you would have conquered
the world
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Guests
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Posted: 12-May-2006 at 02:08 |
Originally posted by Curmudgeon
Originally posted by machine
We would need one common Langauge, one common race, one common religion, to achive unity. |
(1.) Not necessarily. There have been many successful multilingual, multiethnic, multifaith states, from the Persian to the AustroHungarian empire, to the U.S.A. and Brazil.
(2.) Even if we DID have all that, I feel 100% certain that fractures would soon arise, based for example upon a generation gap, a new religious schism, political differences, or nascent oppression arising from the unparalleled power of a world government. (I needn't list historical precedents!)
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The USA Is far from succesful. The Austro-Hungarian empire is different because they are both European.
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Roadkill
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Joined: 13-May-2006
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Posted: 13-May-2006 at 18:01 |
-I see a Global State as very probable. South American, African and Middle-Eastern nations have established organizations similar to the EU and if the UN would become the governing body you could have a four/five state nation(Divided by continents as different geography, production, population and culture necessitates different laws). -The nation would be similar to the US where states accept the constitution and such for "membership". The world would be divided like US states into four/five parts, Europe(EU), Africa(AU), Americas(AU?) and Asia(Errr... AU?). Australia? Lets keep them out of this . Australia is similar to many parts of the world and has an American/European culture and so would probably fit into one of the other Unions. -The society would have to be secular as religion is an institution that breeds ignorance, hatred, distancing and so on. Freedom of religion would of course be constituted but the government would in no way support religious groups(Maybe I'll publish my manifesto on the stupidity of religion here eventually). -This would of course take some time as there are many hotspots around the world still(Middle-East, North Korea, Africa, etc.) but a global government is probable in the future. Division does not breed progress.
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"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
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Qin Dynasty
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Posted: 14-May-2006 at 12:11 |
A world government would only come into being when human beings were under severe and consistent threat to their supermacy over the planet or even their very survival from high intelligent ET invasion.
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Pieinsky
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Posted: 14-May-2006 at 16:00 |
Exactly Qin, for a Human Global nation to emerge Nations would have to be under threat from a much larger form of government. Human groups band together when there is a superior common enemy. This pattern is evident throughout history. From tribes to kingdoms, from kingdoms to nations, from nations to Global government, from global governments to solar government, etc.
I consider it extremely possible that Humans will form a Global nation.
Hopefully in the right way of course!
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Vivek Sharma
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Posted: 11-Oct-2006 at 07:07 |
Onwhose land will they form this nation. Even Antarctica has been divided.
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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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