In Balkans we have?

Originally posted by Anton   The lack of sources that Illirians/Thracians disapear could be used as an argument that they didn't disappear. And this argument is true untill somebody proves the opposite. You have sources that they were there 2000 years ago, and no arguments that they disappear or moved. Thus, they still live there. Even if some other nations came to the same place.

It is a historical fact that the thracian cultural identity didn't survive  after the slavic flood.You can read if you want many books stating that.When the empire split up into two halves,there were but a few people on the mountains of Rodopi speaking  the thracian language.The resurrection of the thracian language was eventually strangled by the new invaders.
When the slavic invasion happened the thracian  population already depleted by the raids in the past wasn't bigger than 800,000 in Thrace and Moesia(upper and lower).From all these,the vast majority had already adopted the Greek identity.So when the Bulgars came into the region the thracians were Byzantines and opponents as you can easily understand of the Bulgars and the slavs.the thracians were totally related to the other Greeks by the time when the slavs came.Don't forget that even during the 20th century there were many Greeks in Bulgaria.These people had not fallen from the sky..
If you think that the Bulgarians didn't burn and kill in the region of thrace then you are ignorant of medieval history.Do you know how many thracians were slaughtered by the slavs and the Bulgars?How many towns were looted?There are sources stating that the northern Balkans had been ravaged by the raids of the Avar-slavs and later of the Bulgar-slavs.

According to Herodotus, Thracians and Illirians were most numbered tribes. It number was more than two millions as I remember.

Herodotus was never good at numbers
Actually some days ago I was reading the new penguin Atlas of the ancient world,and after counting the total thracian population they were less than 2.000.000 in the 5th century.Their region didn't have a high population density.I will look at it again and I will tell you the exact numbers for the illyrians.

The Goths moved to Italy,but some of their vassals may have stayed in Albania.Previously you treated the lack of sources as an argument,why not NOW?

Originally posted by nikodemos [ It is a historical fact that the thracian cultural identity didn't survive  after the slavic flood.You can read if you want many books stating that.When the empire split up into two halves,there were but a few people on the mountains of Rodopi speaking  the thracian language.The resurrection of the thracian language was eventually strangled by the new invaders. When the slavic invasion happened the thracian  population already depleted by the raids in the past wasn't bigger than 800,000 in Thrace and Moesia(upper and lower).From all these,the vast majority had already adopted the Greek identity.So when the Bulgars came into the region the thracians were Byzantines and opponents as you can easily understand of the Bulgars and the slavs.the thracians were totally related to the other Greeks by the time when the slavs came.Don't forget that even during the 20th century there were many Greeks in Bulgaria.These people had not fallen from the sky.. If you think that the Bulgarians didn't burn and kill in the region of thrace then you are ignorant of medieval history.Do you know how many thracians were slaughtered by the slavs and the Bulgars?How many towns were looted?There are sources stating that the northern Balkans had been ravaged by the raids of the Avar-slavs and later of the Bulgar-slavs.

Originally posted by nikodemos You are right akritas.If there was a region that suffered the most from the barbaric constant raids and later the invasions was Thrace,one of the most troubled frontiers of the empire. There were even two Gothic civil wars in Thrace that depleted the rural population The thacians were the akrites/limitanei of the empire.So  it is certain that the thracians were fighting the ancestors of Anton Anton,I see a conflict of identities here!!!

Originally posted by nikodemos Ok every human is free to believe what he/she wants. You believe that the Earth is flat,ok, stay in your ignorance So long!

Originally posted by akritas   Zlatarski, Ostogorski,Stein all of these are the best historician regarding the medieval Valkan.You rejected them , but the majority of academaic wolds  accept theirs works.     Yes, I reject them since I read the carefully (well at least Zlatarski) and claim that their logic is (how to say it politely?) strange. And actually youcan find other instorians that claims other.   Originally posted by Anton It is being done. Especially by molecular genetic methods, since linguistic is unsure (4 inscritprions is to small amount of words to be used to prove something). As I said is not only the genetics.Are more than a  molocular test       Molecular Genetics is bit more precise to my knowledge then linguistic and history. So, I personally beleive it more.     Originally posted by Anton Thanks for that, now please answer the major question -- show something, that proves that Thracians and Illirians moved     The Thracian region until 11th cent was a region that was not never in calm.Hun,Goth,Slavs,Tartars   What Tartars? You read to much sites of Makedontsi   and many other tribes is known from the historical written sourses that destoyed the Thracian region. And finally you don't have either sources that stayed.Or you beleived that the Roman-Byzantine citizens at that times sit and were not mooved when the "barbarians" tribes attacked them?   I have some many of them. But everything I post you will explain like Thracian means not ethnical but geographical term. One example is Vitalian the Thracian, whos father was a commander of foederati, an organization that that has distinct from Roman/Byzantium ethical identity.

Originally posted by Anton   What Tartars? You read to much sites of Makedontsi

Edited by akritas - 28-Aug-2006 at 11:44

Originally posted by Anton   No conflict of identities. Thracians were major population untill invasion of slavs.

Thracian region is not popular reagion at that time.The reasons are known. 

Anton , please don't bring me wikipedia sources.I bring many non wiki sources.So I want something best that wikipedia

Start with Strabo , will be intresting