Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Surpression of the April Uprising-Europe in shock

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Anton View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph


Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888
  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Surpression of the April Uprising-Europe in shock
    Posted: 07-Apr-2007 at 09:06
Originally posted by ataman

My dear Bulgarian friend,
if Russia had been worry so much about oppressed people, it wouldn't have suppressed Polish insurrections in 19th c.
 
I was talking about official reason, ataman. But this also helped to win the support of the war from the societies (Russian and West European).
.
Back to Top
Liudovik_Nemski View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 262
  Quote Liudovik_Nemski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2007 at 09:17
Only Russia wanted to chase the ottomans away from the Balkans because it wanted to control Constantinople so that it's trade and military fleet can access the mediterranean.England wanted to preserve the ottoman empire because a russian military fleet in the mediterranean would be dangerous for the english ships coming through the Suez Canal from India.It also needed to preserve it because the ottoman empire had no industry and in could sell to it anything it wants.
France also didn't want freedom for the Bulgarians because these lands were fertile and the ottomans wouldn't be able to repay their enormous loans.It also wanted to sell all kinds of production there since they were an industrial country like England and Germany and ottoman empire didn't even have a good developed manufacture.

Article from the french newspaper "Spectateur De Orient" from September 1853:
"The merchant forces of the west have an interest of the existence of an enormous and barbaric country to the east without manufacture or industry and without a modern governmental system so that they could sell it their production without fear of rivalry,or tariffs,and so that they could exploit it for their own gain"


They clearly meant the ottomans since there was no other big country in the east at that time.




Edited by Liudovik_Nemski - 07-Apr-2007 at 09:19
Back to Top
Kapikulu View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Berlin
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1914
  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2007 at 10:53
Originally posted by Liudovik_Nemski

Only Russia wanted to chase the ottomans away from the Balkans
 
20 October 1827, Ottoman navy was burnt by British, French and Russian navies in Navarino
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

A Strange Orhan Veli
Back to Top
Krum View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 25-Oct-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 412
  Quote Krum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2007 at 11:02
Originally posted by Liudovik_Nemski


Only Russia wanted to chase the ottomans away from the Balkans


No.Germany and Austria(Austro-Hungaria)wanted it too.Austria because of its territory ambitons aiming to increase its own influence on the balkans.And of course to rival Russia.Germany supported that aim because they wanted to weaken French and British interests and power.Ottoman empire was almost half-colony of these states thats why Germany kept neutrality during the russo-turkish war 1877-1878.Austria also guarantee neutrality in the Raichstadt agreement between Russia and Austria in which Russia promised not to create a large slavic state on the Balkan peninsula.
It is only the dead who have seen the end of war.
Plato
Back to Top
Liudovik_Nemski View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 262
  Quote Liudovik_Nemski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2007 at 11:22
Originally posted by Kapikulu

20 October 1827, Ottoman navy was burnt by British, French and Russian navies in Navarino

So?In politics there are no eternal friends and no eternal enemies just because of one fact.The british wanted the turks not to lose territories because that weakened russia since it wanted passage in the mediterranean as i said above and also wanted the territories south up until the Persian Gulf.In other words-putting the supply lines from India to england in great danger in case war breaks.During the Russo-turkish war in 1877-78 after the April uprising the british even transported with their own ships an turk army from Albania lead by suleiman pasha to help the other troops on the balkans.

Originally posted by Krum

No.Germany and Austria(Austro-Hungaria)wanted it too.Austria because of its territory ambitons aiming to increase its own influence on the balkans.

The only territories Austria was aiming to get are Bosnia and Herzegovina they didn't want to chase away the turks from the whole Balkans.
Back to Top
Kapikulu View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Berlin
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1914
  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2007 at 12:23
Originally posted by Liudovik_Nemski


So?In politics there are no eternal friends and no eternal enemies just because of one fact.The british wanted the turks not to lose territories because that weakened russia since it wanted passage in the mediterranean as i said above and also wanted the territories south up until the Persian Gulf.In other words-putting the supply lines from India to england in great danger in case war breaks.During the Russo-turkish war in 1877-78 after the April uprising the british even transported with their own ships an turk army from Albania lead by suleiman pasha to help the other troops on the balkans.
 
Please go read about Independence of Greece, for the first part..Navarino was put there to imply that.
 
For the second part..The British policy was to protect the presence of the Ottoman Empire, but that was ended in 1870s. This policy was there to block the Russians, and prevent their growth into the Warm Seas as you have mentione4d. After a point, they left this strategy and joined the partition by taking Egypt under control, which guaranteed the safety of British Empire to a great extent.
 
After all, Britain was supportive of Greek independence, and the Balkan states in Balkan Wars...So, your thesis "only Russia wanted to chase Ottomans away from the Balkans" is quite wrong, and needs modification to be true.
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

A Strange Orhan Veli
Back to Top
Liudovik_Nemski View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 262
  Quote Liudovik_Nemski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2007 at 12:52
Originally posted by Kapikulu

After all, Britain was supportive of Greek independence, and the Balkan states in Balkan Wars...


I'm talking of Britain's position on the liberation of Bulgaria in 1878 not the Balkan wars which happened much later,you completely divert the question here.
Tell me one single way the english supported the liberation of the Bulgarians.After the butcheries in the April uprising Benjamin Disraeli didn't do anything while his opponent Gladstone wrote a brochure "The Bulgarian horrors" and made speeches about the problem.Which is great but he wasn't in power back then.The british government didn't want the turks to lose more lands.


Edited by Liudovik_Nemski - 07-Apr-2007 at 12:52
Back to Top
Krum View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 25-Oct-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 412
  Quote Krum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2007 at 14:03
The british government even encouraged ottoman authorities to use all forces to put down bulgarian uprising.
It is only the dead who have seen the end of war.
Plato
Back to Top
Kapikulu View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Berlin
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1914
  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2007 at 14:39
Originally posted by Liudovik_Nemski


I'm talking of Britain's position on the liberation of Bulgaria in 1878 not the Balkan wars which happened much later,you completely divert the question here.

 
Originally posted by Liudovik_Nemski

Only Russia wanted to chase the ottomans away from the Balkans
 
Well, you used the word "Balkans" and used it for a broad timespan and as far as I can understand from this word in common sense, it is not Bulgaria, but a much wider piece of soil. If there hadn't been an official change in the names in last two hours I watched 7 pm news.


Edited by Kapikulu - 07-Apr-2007 at 14:42
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

A Strange Orhan Veli
Back to Top
Liudovik_Nemski View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 262
  Quote Liudovik_Nemski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2007 at 18:01
Originally posted by Kapikulu

[QUOTE=Liudovik_Nemski]
Well, you used the word "Balkans" and used it for a broad timespan and as far as I can understand from this word in common sense, it is not Bulgaria, but a much wider piece of soil. If there hadn't been an official change in the names in last two hours I watched 7 pm news.


Tsaritsa(empress) Katherine II showed interest in conquering the whole Balkans during her reign.This was followed by the russian tzars later on but their hopes soon diminished and their only hope was to take Constantinople.Their last chance was when they tried to liberate Bulgaria-all the united lands with Bulgarian population formed the largest state in the Balkans(more than Romania+Serbia(not the modern ones) taken both) and thus more power for them(since they were thinking that Bulgaria could become a puppet state but Stephan Stambolov and the russophobes took good care of that.)

And by controlling the biggest state there they could get closer to taking Constantinople from the turks but the english and french tried everything possible to minimise the Bulgarian state and completely crushed their chances.


Back to Top
Kapikulu View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Berlin
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1914
  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2007 at 18:43
Originally posted by Liudovik_Nemski



And by controlling the biggest state there they could get closer to taking Constantinople from the turks but the english and french tried everything possible to minimise the Bulgarian state

 
That was indeed why Treaty of San Stefano was not accepted and Treaty of Berlin, was forced upon Russian Empire.
 
Not only the matter of Constantinople, Russian Empire was to have access into Aegean Sea as well with that...
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

A Strange Orhan Veli
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.047 seconds.