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Hitler and Germans the laughing stock of History
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edgewaters View Drop Down
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Posts: 2394 		  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Hitler and Germans the laughing stock of History
    Posted: 25-Jul-2007 at 18:30
Originally posted by Cywr

I'm, waiting for them to find the direct descendants of the original Aryans as some inbred nomads in the most isolated corner of Uzbekistan. That will make all the borish nationalists STFU.


Well, the most commonly accepted explanation in the past was the Anatolian theory, which put the origins in modern-day Turkey. It has since fallen out of favour and the view with the most currency is the Kurgan hypothesis, which puts the origins basically in one of the most hardscrabble backwaters of Eurasia, somewhere around northern Kazakhstan and the southern part of the Ural Mountains.

Now Hitler might have got the idea that because there were Germans living in that area - the Volga Germans - that they had some direct connection with the homeland of the Indo-Europeans, but, it's just basic history that the Volga Germans were recent arrivals, having settled there by invitation of Catherine the Great in the late 1700s. Pure coincidence that there were any Germans there at all.
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Posts: 6003 		  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2007 at 18:42
I was under the impression that Hitler didnt give a toss where the Aryans came from, it was just one of many vauge excuses for the Germans being better than everyone else. He even claimed that Jesus was an Aryan, and that Bavarian blood was the purest on different occasions, presumably depending on his audience.
IIRC, it was the Thule society wierdos who took it more seriously, and they mixed it up with atlantians and what not, with occasional field trips to tibet to measure the odd skull, as you do.
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Posts: 2394 		  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2007 at 19:22
Originally posted by Cywr

I was under the impression that Hitler didnt give a toss where the Aryans came from, it was just one of many vauge excuses for the Germans being better than everyone else. He even claimed that Jesus was an Aryan


You're probably right on that score. Hitler took a hands-off approach to everything, issuing vague directives and generalizations while leaving the bother of details to subordinates. He preferred loafing around the Berghof and playing at being the "Bavarian gentleman" (gentleman of leisure, apparently) to doing any sort of work. I suppose one cannot expect much else from a man whose background was that of dreamer and bum on the streets of Vienna.

IIRC, it was the Thule society wierdos who took it more seriously, and they mixed it up with atlantians and what not, with occasional field trips to tibet to measure the odd skull, as you do.


As I do?    

Whatever do you mean?   
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Posts: 6003 		  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2007 at 19:32
Umm, no. Figure of speech. Not you personaly.
Often used after describing something wierd or far out.
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Posts: 1457 		  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2007 at 01:40
One of the striking features of Indo-European society (ayran in the old form) always has been the enforced laws on in-breeding. This process of exogenesis (out-breeding) started the spread of the original society. The same  process happened with the Vikings, once the third generation had reached they had to move out of Scandinavia and find their own lands. This made room in the little space their people occupied originally. 

I don't know what Hitler would have made of that. Out all the things Hitler most loved it was standing in front of a roaring crown shouting for his immortality while he thundered out whatever came into his tinny head. He was and alway remained an archetype trade union leader with dreams of national socialist glory who really did make it into the big time.
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Posts: 2394 		  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2007 at 09:35
Originally posted by elenos

He [Hitler] was and alway remained an archetype trade union leader


Say what? Hitler banned trade unions.
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Posts: 409 		  Quote bilal_ali_2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2007 at 07:43
Actually i like to back out a bit. I may have been a bit too harsh. Many nations in the past have held stupid and superstitious beliefs and just to single out Germans for this is a bit unfair. Every nation has had its moments of shame. For example my contry in its short 60 years of existence has already has one such hour of shame when we commited unspeakable atrocities against the Bangla people. So i admit i may have bene in the wrong here 
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Posts: 1457 		  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2007 at 08:56
Originally posted by edgewaters

Say what? Hitler banned trade unions.


From Mein Kampf

Are trade unions necessary? I think that I have already answered the question adequately. In the present state of affairs I am convinced that we cannot possibly dispense with the trades unions. On the contrary, they are among the most important institutions in the economic life of the nation. Not only are they important in the sphere of social policy but also, and even more so, in the national political sphere. For when the great masses of a nation see their vital needs satisfied through a just trade unionist movement the stamina of the whole nation in its struggle for existence will be enormously reinforced thereby.

Okay so he lied, but he was Hitler and not known for his ability to keep promises or even tell the truth. He was a master of practicing deception on a massive scale. When taking over Germany, he closed down the trade unions and arrested the leaders even thought he used the union votes to get into power. Look what he did to the Brown Shirts, his original working class supporters! They were all murdered and around that time he even had his previous girlfriend killed.




Edited by elenos - 30-Jul-2007 at 09:02
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Posts: 2394 		  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2007 at 13:03
Originally posted by elenos


he closed down the trade unions and arrested the leaders even thought he used the union votes to get into power.


Actually the trade unions supported the Social Democrat party (SPD) and the Communist Party (KPD), and were probably the largest and most vocal organized opposition to Hitler that existed at the time - evidently not vocal or organized enough, though. The SPD voted against the Enabling Act, the KPD would have done so but they were banned from the vote, both parties were built principally on trade unions.

This was the chief reason Hitler banned trade unions despite his one-time admiration of them - because he could never get their support and they were determined to oppose and undermine him.

Edited by edgewaters - 30-Jul-2007 at 13:05
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Posts: 1457 		  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2007 at 20:53

After WWI Hitler became part of a military intelligence unit and infiltrated the German Worker's Party. He soon saw this struggling party as his pathway to power and worked very hard to build it into a political party. His emotional speeches and mass meetings captivated audiences with talk of the peoples welfare, self-determination for all Germans and equal rights in the world.

His speeches also blamed the Jews for internationalism (now called globalization) for the sake of profit. He said this caused Germanys inflation, political instability, unemployment, and humiliation in war. In July 1921 Hitler became chairman of the party. In January 1923, French and Belgian troops marched into Germany to settle a dispute. Hitler exploited this incursion to the full by holding mass protests despite a ban on rallies.

The Nazi party drew vast numbers of members affected by hyper-inflation and food scarcity and so his labor party kept winning elections, large or small. They offered jobs to party members and provided them as long as they swore not to be part of any other party. The name changed to the National Socialist German Worker's party, and the red flag with the swastika was adopted as the symbol.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2007 at 20:52
The Germans  NEVER started WW1 or 2! DO your 20th cent history! Its propaganda. The Germans were part of the tension just as the other countries were in Europe
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Posts: 1366 		  Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2007 at 21:17
So, KingBooker, out of curiousity who started WWII? If I remember correctly Germany was building up arms and re militarizing when the rest of Europe really wasn't. Don't forget that they, the Germans, were annexing parts of Europe and that one Neville Chamberline tried to let Hitler do whatever he wanted. What greater tension were the Germans part of, in regards to World War II?
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Posts: 1457 		  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2007 at 21:19
Originally posted by KingBooker

The Germans  NEVER started WW1 or 2! DO your 20th cent history! Its propaganda. The Germans were part of the tension just as the other countries were in Europe

That contention has to go down in the Guiness Book of Records as the world's most useless argument!
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Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2007 at 21:24
Originally posted by King John

If I remember correctly Germany was building up arms and re militarizing when the rest of Europe really wasn't.


actually, all of europe was re-arming by the time Hitler took over, thats why the ex-entente powers couldn't say anything about it. but re-arming wasn't the reason Hitler started the war anyways...
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Posts: 572 		  Quote longshanks31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2007 at 01:16
they made themselves a laughing stock opening up on a second front and the peculiar marching.
 
what they did to the jews was militarily stupid too, if they had, had that volume of people with manpower and talent  contained there in , i think the atom bomb would have been theres first not to mention extra production and soldiers.
 
the nazi ideology was bonkers, anyone who views the nazis as anything other than a historical laughing stock needs there head examining.
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Posts: 1366 		  Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2007 at 04:26
Originally posted by Temujin


Originally posted by King John

If I remember correctly Germany was building up arms and re militarizing when the rest of Europe really wasn't.
actually, all of europe was re-arming by the time Hitler took over, thats why the ex-entente powers couldn't say anything about it. but re-arming wasn't the reason Hitler started the war anyways...


You should reread what I wrote. What I said was that Germany was building arms in a time when the rest of Europe really wasn't. That statement is not the same as saying that Germany was the only country building up its military in Europe. The statement that I made actually cedes the point that other nations in Europe were building arms, however they were not doing so to the extent that Germany was.

I'm well aware that re-militarizing wasn't the reason that the war started again re-read what I wrote. I believe that I said something that had to do with land grabbing and stated that as the cause of the war. The land grabbing that I am talking about is Hitler's annexation of Austria, the Sudatenland, France, and later his full scale invasion of Poland.
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Posts: 156 		  Quote SuN. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2007 at 05:25
Originally posted by bilal_ali_2000

What if objective history and research would prove that Indus Valley Civilization was indeed Aryan (maybe by deciphering the Indus Script) and that it was the Indus Valley people who spread into Europe and Cental Asia and not the other way round. Just imagine that if that would happen, how Hitler and Nazi and to some extent even the German people would become the laughing stock of history.



Some people seem to have deciphered the Indus script & it seems to be similiar to the Tamil language. I dont know the details though. Just remember having read it somewhere.
God is not great.
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Posts: 156 		  Quote SuN. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2007 at 05:27
Originally posted by edgewaters



So anecdotal gossip from your sister, a couple of cousins and a friend constitutes "most accounts"?

Those are some pretty loose standards by which to slander an entire people.



Testimony of direct relatives may not be inferior to arm chair history obtained from google.

Macaulay's historians said horse was non existent in ancient India. But now it has been proved that ancient India had horses. They said chariots were not present in Indus valley. That also has been proved wrong. Indus valley civilization was a part of the Aryan civilization, which continues till date.

Another proof is that the mythical city of Dwarka, Lord Krishna's city  has also been discovered & dated at 7500 b.c.


Edited by SuN. - 31-Oct-2007 at 05:33
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Posts: 1457 		  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2007 at 21:51
Whoops, we have just jumped from Hitler to the Indus Valley in the last couple of posts. 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2007 at 02:11
Originally posted by elenos

I can understand where you are coming from, but Hitler and the Nazis ruled by force and were not elected by the people....
 
Hitler was elected. However, when he took power he simply forgot the rules and become a dictator.
 
It is not fair to blame German people about the actions of theirs ancestors. 99.99% of germans weren't born by 1921, so they have no responsability at all on what happened since 1939! It is also not fair to blame all Germans for what was done under a war and a dictatorship.
 
Now, blame the origins of the Nazi idiology rather than German people, that was under the control of a dictator. The origin of the racist ideology are deep in the history of Europe, and can be traced to everywhere in Europe, including France, Britain, Russia, etc. and also to the Christians polgroms of the Middle Ages, the Inquisition and other criminal actions of the past. So, the whole Europe is in part guilty of what happed in Germany those tragic days.
 
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