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Topic ClosedWas Hannibal Black
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Posts: 29 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Was Hannibal Black
    Posted: 03-Oct-2007 at 00:52
you know, come to think of it, this guy looks JUST LIKE my brother in law in brasil....I'm not kidding!LOL
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Posts: 7035 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2007 at 12:57
I was taught that the Berbers were the descendants of the Vandals which accounted for the commonness of blue-eyes and blonde hair among them.
 
I gather that's not the way the term is used nowadays, but what are the Vandal descendants now called if anything? It became topical last week as a result of that silly photograph that came out of the Madeleine McCann case.
 
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Posts: 166 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2007 at 03:19
The Vandals were Germanic and moved into North Africa at the collapse of the Roman Empire (which is why we use the word "vandal" the way we do now). The Berbers have been living there since before recorded history. I don't know what's happened to the Vandals since then. I assume they became assimilated into the local culture.
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Posts: 246 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2007 at 10:37

Vandals were already a mixed army of people by time they invaded North Africa, they had a number of Iberians, Gauls and ex-Roman soldiers within their numbers. Also assuming that every Germanic is blond and or Blue-Eyed, or have a monopoly over such traits, isnt reality. Berbers are  a Caucasoid people, so their inclined to normal Caucasoid human variation, which means minotrity tendacies towards Blondness.

Also heres an interesting, though perhaps unsurprising read:
 
Ancient Germans weren't so fair
 
 


Edited by Tyranos - 04-Oct-2007 at 10:49
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Posts: 110 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2007 at 23:26
Originally posted by pinguin

Hannibal Black? Only in Hollywood LOL
 
Nice drawing but pure propaganda.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2008 at 19:53
Only one way to find out..... Build a time machine!
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Posts: 8792 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2008 at 20:04
No need, we have contemporary artifacts which prove the point.
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Posts: 994 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2008 at 21:33
Interesting that we appear to be more 'obsessed' with such questions of 'race' than the ancients appeared to have been themselves.  What exactly are the criteria upon which one judges 'blackness'?  'Phoenician' isn't a 'race', so saying Hannibal was 'Phoencian' isn't really addressing the 'race' question.   
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Posts: 8792 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2008 at 21:56
Well that is because in those days they lived, knew they weren't black and no idiot claimed they were black.  Being Phoenecian meant that they certainly were not black since blacks are not indigenous to that part of the world and never have been as far as I know.

But again that point isn't even worth making since there is ample evidence that Carthaginians were probably of a Levant-like appearance judging by the images left to us from that time:








Edited by Zagros - 05-Apr-2008 at 21:58
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Posts: 994 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2008 at 22:21
Originally posted by Zagros

Well that is because in those days they lived, knew they weren't black and no idiot claimed they were black.  Being Phoenecian meant that they certainly were not black since blacks are not indigenous to that part of the world and never have been as far as I know....
 
Well, not that I'm trying to argue that Hannibal was 'black' (I don't know and don't really care), but that is the question that this thread was created to ask.  My point was simply that, in order to answer the question, one has to define what is meant by 'black'.  AFAIK, there is no definitive information regarding Hannibal's skin pigmentation.  There was a fair amount of 'mixing' of 'races' in those times.  Hannibal himself took an 'Iberian' wife (indigenous, presumably not 'Phoenician').  So what if Hannibal's mother was 'black' (based on whatever the criteria are)?


Edited by deadkenny - 05-Apr-2008 at 22:22
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana
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Posts: 8792 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2008 at 22:34
I would say there was far less race mixing - I actually mean what are popularly defined as races, not nations of different languages and similar racial appearances for that is nown to have been common - in those times than there is today.  The sub-saharan blacks (which some claim Hannibal was) were by and large brought to North Africa as a result of the Arab slave trade post Islam.  The only veritable blacks in classical history were the Nubians (East Africans), as far as I am aware.
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Posts: 994 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2008 at 23:11
I tend to agree, if 'black' is defined in terms of 'sub-Saharan' peoples, then the most likely connection would have been from Nubia by way of Egypt.  Again, I have no information to support any theory along those lines.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2008 at 00:17
Yeap. This picture is just fantasy
 
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Posts: 3335 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2008 at 00:46
Originally posted by Daner

Only one way to find out..... Build a time machine!
 
Who needs a time machine when you can manipulate relativity?Wink
     
   
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Posts: 769 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2008 at 01:38
Hannibal probably looked more akin to a modern Lebanese person than a Black African.

Edited by Theodore Felix - 14-May-2008 at 01:39
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Posts: 1835 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2008 at 06:46
Originally posted by Justinian

Originally posted by pinguin

Hannibal Black? Only in Hollywood LOL
WTF?  Is that some sort of promo for a beer company!?  Drink the beer of Hannibal or something?LOL


LOL LOL. I remember that picture somewhere! Oh they actually put it on the "Black pride in history" wall frame in my high school's history department office next to pictures of Marthin Luther King, Mansa Musa, Shaka Zulu etc.
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Posts: 180 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2008 at 07:00
Who needs a time machine when you can manipulate relativity?


Just manipulate history! That's a lot easier.
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Posts: 591 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2008 at 08:37
Yep, having a time machine and using it might provide some unfortunate (for certain theorists) facts!!
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Posts: 1962 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2008 at 00:26
As a side note...
 
In addition to the Great Kings Of Africa, they did a Busch Beer salutes the Glories of Babylon campaign aimed at Iraqis in the usa (probably only Iraqi Christians, since everyone knows that Moslems would never drink beer Wink)
 
Anyways... interested people could order decorations featuring Ancient Iraqi kings (all heavily muscled and no doubt, avid beer drinkers), archaeological sites and other cultural items.  At least the Glories of Babylon materials seemed more historicaly accurate than the African Hannibal.
Cheers 


Edited by Cryptic - 15-May-2008 at 00:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2008 at 01:23
The African Hannibal and the Black Olmecs are both creations of that school of thought called Afrocentrism. Ivan Van Sertima, a desilutional Guyana's professor, born in a land with a relative contact with Ibero-american countries (and perhaps envious of the Arab and Indigenous heritages of those countries) was one of the main inventors and promoters of that pseudo-historical propaganda. It looks like all its work was dedicated to robb the Moorish and Indigenous pasts.
 
We better ask him.


Edited by pinguin - 15-May-2008 at 01:25
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