How does Mongolians feel about Han Chinese?

I'm not sure that the Mongols had stronger feelings of independence and that's what led to the independent country of Mongolia. The Tibetans and the Uyghurs certainly had then, and have today, very strong feelings about achieving independence. Go talk to some Tibetans and Uyghurs and you will hear it upfront and directly. I don't have the impression that their feelings were any less than that of the Mongols. In both cases, their desire to achieve an independent state was crushed through military force, the great PLA occupied both Tibet and Eastern Turkestan, and it's only through force that Chinese domination remains over these territories. If the military forces withdrew, my guess is that the Tibetans and Uyghurs would quickly reclaim their territory and make an effort to establish their own government.  The Mongols residing in Southern Mongolia, despite their Chinese occupation, have a very strong affinity and identification with their Mongol cuture and heritage. Certainly the policy of sinicization on every level is having a profound  effect on them but my guess is that they will retain their Mongol identity for a long time to come. Oppression makes people identify more strongly with their heritage.  

Originally posted by Kids Hey, guys, I am thinking about making a documentary about minorities (after saw the Tibetan protest over Chinese "control of their land") in China and I want to know how Mongolians feel about Chinese or being part of Chinese (in Inner China)? I have met some young Mongolians and they seem to be very hostile about Han Chinese. But, I also met one Mongolian from China who claim that he is proud to be Mongolian Chinese. I know there are more Mongolians live in Inner Mongolia than Outer Mongolia and I like to know if there is any ethnic tension between Mongolians and Han people? Do Mongolians feel their culture is disappering in response to Han Chinese migration and their rapid modernization? Thanks

I have only met one Mongolian while I was in a program at Lakeside, Montana. She seemed a bit hostile to the Chinese presence in inner Mongolia. She was also thankful the Russia presence in outer Mongolia kept the Chinese from invading her country. She looked Chinese to me but she was clear about being Mongolian and not chinese. I did not see that she hated the Han Chinese but she was worried the Chinese government might try and seize her country like they did Tibet. I hope Russia and America would keep that from happening because I am sure most Mongolians do not want to be occupied by a foriegn government and prefer they own destiny culturally.

You need to look at the things on case by case basis. USA and Russia can very well be good guys for some countries under certain conditions while China play the bad guy role and vice-versa.

There are 3 regional bullies in Asia - China, Russia and India, all occupying land against the will of the people. The same could be said of USA, but its colonies and minority rights today are more benign in nature, except for the recent unfortunate occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, a result of Arab extremism and Zionist manipulation of US public opinion.

In order to counter the 3 bullies, the rest of the Asian countries could work towards some kind of Asian Union - big 3. Any big power would be granted the right to be included only when they improve minority rights condition. This could also be effective and right minded policy for the West to support this group, instead of continuing to support the bullies with market access and economic integration. Corporate profit unfortunately trumps all policy considerations, which are influenced by the bullies. Small states will never threaten Western interests, which the bullies eventually will.

Wisdom comes from climbing through the ladders of economic evolution of 3 centuries, as it happened with US and Western Europe. The rest of the world is still unevolved in comparison. The integration in EU is happening from self initiative and compromise, although the Eastern Europeans in it will continue to create problems, Georgia is just one example. Israel is another example a regional bully due to a population of largely East Europeans and Middle Eastern people. Russia, China and India were united/integrated, not by themselves, but by foreign invaders. The population suffered from military domination for some centuries but received these big united entities as gift from former rulers. Big united entities automatically mean power and power without wisdom results in bullying. Leaders are representatives of populations and reflects their hopes, dreams and feelings, so it is the population that is the problem, not leaders. So there is not much hope from leadership of bullies, till the population goes through their evolutionary climb. It is up to the rest of the world to go for fast track integration such as South American Union, African Union and Asian Union - big 3 and the West to stop supporting the bullies and support these other entities instead, as effective counter balance. Much of terrorism is an ill advised and desperate violence under another set of unevolved and clueless leadership as a futile resistance to the bullies. The real threat to world peace are the bullies that are using state power to trample on minority rights and manipulating public opinion of powerful states like the US to achieve their short-sighted goals.


Edited by eventhorizon - 21-Aug-2008 at 14:02

Originally posted by Sarmat12 Originally posted by eventhorizon Wisdom comes from climbing through the ladders of economic evolution of 3 centuries, as it happened with US and Western Europe. The rest of the world is still unevolved in comparison. The integration in EU is happening from self initiative and compromise, although the Eastern Europeans in it will continue to create problems, Georgia is just one example. Israel is another example a regional bully due to a population of largely East Europeans and Middle Eastern people. Russia, China and India were united/integrated, not by themselves, but by foreign invaders. The population suffered from military domination for some centuries but received these big united entities as gift from former rulers. Big united entities automatically mean power and power without wisdom results in bullying. Leaders are representatives of populations and reflects their hopes, dreams and feelings, so it is the population that is the problem, not leaders. So there is not much hope from leadership of bullies, till the population goes through their evolutionary climb. It is up to the rest of the world to go for fast track integration such as South American Union, African Union and Asian Union - big 3 and the West to stop supporting the bullies and support these other entities instead, as effective counter balance. Much of terrorism is an ill advised and desperate violence under another set of unevolved and clueless leadership as a futile resistance to the bullies. The real threat to world peace are the bullies that are using state power to trample on minority rights and manipulating public opinion of powerful states like the US to achieve their short-sighted goals.   Indeed and writing posts without wisdom is resulting in nonsense like in your case.   First of all, try post your strange statements in another more appropriate thread and second try to save your mind from the false ideas about the illusions regarding the superiority the West due to whatever development...   Your favorite West has been and remains the biggest bully in the world history for the last five hundred years.

Edited by eventhorizon - 22-Aug-2008 at 02:15

To my knowledge a referendum was made in Mongolia under ROC framework resulting Outer Mongolia prefered independence and Inner Mongolia stayed with China.

Present day Mongolians yes do hate Han Chinese from mainland , but  has better feelings towards Taiwanese, peoples from Hong Kong and Macau and Singaporeans. yes they are very sensitive to Chinese presence in Mongolia.  They have the fear that PRC would invade their country but PRC has already recognised their independence and their seat in U.N.

Whereas the Inner Mongolians live in harmony with Han Chinese they don't have the same kind of hate to the Hans.  Inner Mongolians possibly feel strange and bad when their brothers in Mongolia has this kind of hate.   Some Mongolians even don't  consider inner Mongolians are true Mongols but faked ones.

Actually many Chinese celebrities are of Mongolian descent.

SanjAltan, thanks for clarifying the situation in Inner Mongolia and for supporting the discussion of bullyism.

Here I should clarify some things, China and India are bullies par excellence, Russia is also one, considering Chechnya and US unfortunately is still the biggest bully, as Sarmat12 has pointed out, considering Iraq/Afghanistan and its support for Israel.

Sarmat12, my question to you is this, if Europe can form European Union, African countries can form African Union and South Americans can form South American Union, then why is it a problem for Asian countries to form an Asian Union and exclude the bullies, if they are not wanted in this Union. If the bullies feel threatened, then it must be that this idea has some merit, otherwise they would not feel threatened.

It is my personal opinion that the only way bullies can be countered is with uniting the victims, power has to be matched with counter balancing power. It is the only way we can even ask the US to bud out of Asian business if they are up to no good. I know its a pipe dream, but all big fires start with a spark. United we stand, divided we fall.

Yes you have every right to your opinions, but the Mongols of China can decide for themselves what kind of 'harmony' they're experiencing. Right now, given the policies of the Chinese government, and if the Mongols had the ability to openly and honestly express their views, they would probably tell you that they don't feel much 'harmony'. This is not the place to supply documentation for this, but let me point you to 2 websites where you can see some information related to this topic : www.smhric.org and www.free-hada-now.org as another.  As far government policies, I might mention the current 'sheng tai yi min' government initiatives of ecological migration as a particularly egregious example of  how Mongols are being uprooted and their way of life eliminated.

The charge that overgrazing is the cause of the dust storms is just plain wrong. The Mongols lived for centuries with the very same Gobi desert you refer to in perfect natural harmony as nomads and there was never an issue with the massive dust storms until the ecological balance was thrown off by the unwise government policy of opening up the grasslands to farming. It is the non-sustainable farming practices of millions of Han immigrants who were encouraged to emigrate from their home provinces over the past 60+ years that has destroyed vast tracts of the grasslands. They are the ones who the government needs to target first. But the current methods being used to stem the dust storms are disproportionately targeting Mongol herdsmen and their families, with hundreds of thousands being forced to change their nomadic way of life with little compensation for their property losses not to mention the mental and social suffering that has ensued. Will this and other government policies aimed at ameliorating the dust storms and ecological damage work? This is the very same government that caused the problems in the first place, so how much faith can we have that their policies will work now?

Finally, to argue that Mongol identity can be preserved merely by stamping somebody's ethnic affiliation on it is just plain silly. It's just a piece of paper. Mongol identity means much more than a word on a card. Language, culture, religion, customs, way of life, traditions, writing, literature. Do you get that?  Can you tell me that Mongol schools, with instructional materials in the Mongol language and writing are being preserved? Can you tell me that Mongols can freely use their language and mail a letter in their own language and it will be delivered? Can you tell me that the Chinese government is living up to the promise of the Chinese constitution ensuring autonomy to the minorities? Can you tell me that Mongol culture is valued by the Han as a real contribution to the diversity of the nation and should be respected as such?  Unfortunately, very little of this is happening because the Chinese government is obsessed with splittism.  This obsession has caused the Chinese government to see every independent expression of non-Han cultural values as an act of  sedition, leading to enormous overreactions, with  persecutions and jailings of  anyone who espouses their own ethnic cultural values. This is especially true in Southern Mongolia, witness Mr. Hada who has been imprisoned now for 12+ years merely because he worked for the preservation of Mongol culture, but it's equally true in Eastern Turkestan and Tibet.  One could go on and on and no reasonable objective person can disagree with eventhorizon's statement that '...China is a bully par excellence.' 

It's hard work to get to the truth, especially in China, where Truth is tightly controlled and manipulated by a very insecure government. And we cannot expect someone else to do the work for us. Each of us needs to make an effort and commit to finding out the truth if we want to enter into a dialogue where we might potentially make the world a better place.  It cannot be done by clinging to the propaganda force fed to us by undemocratic and insecure governments. 

Let me hasten to add that some democratic governments play this game too, but there, we can appeal to other mechanisms to at least hold this in check and there are opportunities to challenge these things. In China, there is none.

This is a good discussion yet more in tune with Intellectual discussions. Hope you all conitnue with vigor.