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Styrbiorn 
Caliph 
Joined: 04-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2810 |
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 Topic: Spanish inventors and scientistsPosted: 23-Feb-2009 at 14:46 |
Huh? First, I don't consider Englishmen "Northern Europeans", so your accusation of some sort of favourism is nonsensical on even more than the fundamental level. Spanish is as strange to me as English, and I wouldn't care either way even if they weren't. Secondly, his engine was pretty useless. Thirdly, I also said Savery is also totally forgotten, since his engine was also useless. People don't remember useless inventions. I think I explained quite clearly why Watts and Newcomen are remembered for their steam engines, and why Savery, Ayanz and others are not. Why do you have to accuse people of X-centricism whenever you don't agree with someone? Edited by Styrbiorn - 23-Feb-2009 at 14:50 |
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Posted: 23-Feb-2009 at 15:05 |
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The machine of Hero was a turbine, so it is another history.
This is the entry that has to be changed in history of technology. Savery is considered the inventor of the first steam machine. The merit should go to Ayanz. Of course, that doesn't change the fact Newcomen and specially Watt put the steam machine on stereoids.
Look the celebration to Savery that today exists:
First steam engine mechanism
On 2 July 1698 Savery patented an early steam engine, "A new invention for raiseing of water and occasioning motion to all sorts of mill work by the impellent force of fire, which will be of great use and advantage for drayning mines, serveing townes with water, and for the working of all sorts of mills where they have not the benefitt of water nor constant windes."[1] He demonstrated it to the Royal Society on 14 June 1699. The patent has no illustrations or even description, but in 1702 Savery described the machine in his book The Miner's Friend; or, An Engine to Raise Water by Fire[2], in which he claimed that it could pump water out of mines. Savery's engine had no piston, and no moving parts except from the taps. It was operated by first raising steam in the boiler; the steam was then admitted to the working vessel, allowing it to blow out through a downpipe into the water that was to be raised. When the system was hot and therefore full of steam the tap between the boiler and the working vessel was shut, and if necessary the outside of the vessel was cooled. This made the steam inside it condense, creating a partial vacuum, and atmospheric pressure pushed water up the downpipe until the vessel was full. At this point the tap below the vessel was closed, and the tap between it and the up-pipe opened, and more steam was admitted from the boiler. As the steam pressure built up, it forced the water from the vessel up the up-pipe to the top of the mine. Savery took great care to stress how powerful his engine was, and was the first to use the term "horsepower". However, his engine had three serious problems. First, every time water was admitted to the working vessel much of the heat was wasted in warming up the water that was being pumped. Secondly, the second stage of the process required high-pressure steam to force the water up, and the engine's soldered joints were barely capable of withstanding high pressure steam and needed frequent repair. Thirdly, the engine could only raise water about 40 feet (12 m) and as a result had to be installed far down in a mine, and a deep mine would need a series of engines to raise water all the way to the top
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Styrbiorn
Caliph
Joined: 04-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2810 |
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Posted: 23-Feb-2009 at 16:04 |
Savery isn't considered the inventor - he's hardly known more than Ayanz outside England. Did Ayanz build a lof of engines that were actually used in mines? And he do get credit for inspiring Savery, whose engine led to Newcomen's, whose engine led to Watt's. There really isn't a single inventor, rather a bunch of improvers, since the theory goes back to Heron. They all invented a steam engine, but to determine who invented THE steam engine is quite pointless and impossible. Using wiki as an example, the Swedish wikipedia lists Papin as the inventor (probably on the basis that his engine actually used a piston), while the English has Savery as having built the first practical machine and the Croatian Newcomen (of the same reason...). The Norwegian wiki is even funnier, listing Watt as the inventor, but that's what you can expect from the Norwegians  A question about Ayanz: was his engine ever used in practice? Edited by Styrbiorn - 23-Feb-2009 at 16:15 |
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Posted: 23-Feb-2009 at 16:13 |
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I agree on the last comment. It is just that is curious a Spaniard could be in the chain that lead to the steam machine.
You know, Spaniards were famous for contributing nothing to science and tech, but it seem that was more a problem of the Spanish lack of support to creators than anything else.
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Posted: 25-Feb-2009 at 00:44 |
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Ok. Let's move on. Narciso Monturiol was the first of two Spanish outstanding submarine designers. the other was Isaac Peral of whom we are going to talk later.
Narciso Monturiol developed the most advanced submarine of his time. A submarine that some people say served as inspiration to the Nautilus of Jules Verne. And a submarine that was offerend to the confederates during the Civil War... and was rejected.
Data follows:
 Ictineo of Monturiol. Inspiration of the Nautilus.
    From:
Narciso Monturiol 1819-1885h1 = document.getElementById("title").getElementsByTagName("h1")[0];h1.innerHTML = widont(h1.innerHTML);Narciso Monturiol - Spanish InventorBy Mary Bellis, About.com Narciso Monturiol was a Catalonian physicist and inventor who researched underwater navigation and designed an early submarine. In 1856, Narciso Monturiol built a submarine called the "Ictineo".
Despite popular folklore, Narciso Monturiol did not build the very first submarine. (Our "Timeline of Submarine History" illustrates that submarines were being built as early as 1620.) However, Narciso Monturiol did build one of the most advanced submarines available at the time.
Narciso Monturiol was inspired to invent a device to aid the Spainish coral divers who fished off the coast of Cadaques. His submarine was intended to save the divers manual labor and reduce their exposure to diving risks. In 1859, Narciso Monturiol's Ictineo submarine was first launched from Barcelona and proved to be submergable for up to two hours. The Ictineo was manually powered by sixteen men turning the propeller. By 1864, Narciso Monturiol had redesigned the Ictineo adding a steam generator for power. The Ictineo could then reach depths of up to thirty meters, and stay submerged for up to seven hours. As a commercial venture the Ictineo failed finding no customers, Monturiol even offered the Ictineo to the Confederacy to help break the Federal blockade. The Confederacy turned down the offer and eventually, Narciso Monturiol turned his attention to shipwreck recovery.
One interesting fact about the Ictineo submarine is that Jules Verne, the famous writer of 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea based his fictional Nautilus submarine after the Ictineo. |
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Posted: 25-Feb-2009 at 00:58 |
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And if you got interesting and want to read more, please read it:
Monturiol: the forgotten submariner
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Posted: 01-Mar-2009 at 03:23 |
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Well, let's move on to Isaac Peral. Outstanding Spanish engineer that designed the first electric submarine that launched torpedos, and able to enter in combat at open sea.
 If the submarines of Peral would had been used during the Spanish-American War, the outcome could had been quite different. However, the conservative Spanish government didn't invest in develop a better fleet at the right time.
This is the story of the submarines of Isaac Peral.
    From Wiki:
Isaac Peral (Cartagena, 1 June 1851 – 22 May 1895, Berlin), was a Spanish scientist, sailor and inventor of the Peral Submarine (built 1884, launched 1888). Intended for military use, this submarine pioneered new designs in the hull, control systems and air systems, proving a success in two years of trials. Its ability to fire torpedoes under water while maintaining full propulsive power and control has led some to call it the first U-BOAT. There are several streets in Spain named after Peral, including one at Moncloa/Universitario section of Madrid, and others in Málaga, Córdoba, Santander, Rota and Getafe. ----------------------
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edgewaters
Sultan 
Snake in the Grass-Banned Joined: 13-Mar-2006 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 2394 |
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Posted: 01-Mar-2009 at 04:23 |
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Most are aware of Spain's importance in the early Renaissance - it was through the Spanish universities that advanced mathematics, such as the use Arabic numerals and the notation of "0" were introduced to English scholars, for instance. Spain was second only to Italy as an academic center for a time. I can't name too many Spanish inventions and I know little about Spanish discoveries, but I do know that it was a very important academic nexus (mostly because of the universities and other scholastic infrastructure it inheirited from the Moors, but still). |
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Posted: 01-Mar-2009 at 04:50 |
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Well, Spaniards are also important in the development of the human rights. It was at theirs courts and universities where for the first time was introduced the idea that all the human beings had natural rights. Something amazing if we think a little bit about it, particularly in a Spain that was dominated by the Inquisition.
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edgewaters
Sultan
Snake in the Grass-Banned Joined: 13-Mar-2006 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 2394 |
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Posted: 01-Mar-2009 at 05:15 |
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Yes, it is also well-known in the English world as a secondary center for the development of humanism alongside Italy, for the same reasons (it had a sophisticated academic culture in the Early Renaissance period). At the same time there is that stereotype of sadism. My grandmother (in England) once cursed the Spanish for being sadists and said something to the effect that all the wars were the fault of hot-headed Spaniards. I was only 11, but even then I was a bit taken aback! That's actually when I learned the word "sadism" if I remember right. Kind of a paradoxical and contradictory view, but I guess that's how superpowers are perceived. Anglo-American culture is acquiring pretty much the same sort of contradictory stereotype at the moment. |
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Posted: 01-Mar-2009 at 11:27 |
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Well, Spaniards are a bit strange. Bullfighting, for instance, is sadist to a larger extent. Certain religious practises are a bit weird as well. And it is true Spain was involved in wars all over Europe and that the conquest of the Americas was a brutish business, particularly in the first decades.
However, Spaniards were really convinced catholics, and they lived concerned to go to hell, literarily, in the after life. That's why you can see people repented and tried to fix the wrongs of life before it was too late. It is very clear to me that, unlike other superpowers of the time, Spaniards had a concience that didn't leave them alone.
With respect to Britain, the reason that they started to hate Spain seems obvious: the attempt of invasion. However, British should remember Spain tried to do that simply because Britain was a cave of pirats at the time. Pirats that attacked constantly Spain's territories in Europe and the Americas, killing not only soldiers but civilians.
And yes, the U.S. is perceived as an abussive superpower by Latin Americans. However, unlike the feeling I get from the Anglosaxon world towards Spain, Latin Americans don't hate the U.S. people.
Edited by pinguin - 01-Mar-2009 at 11:29 |
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