QuoteReplyTopic: Cumans Posted: 15-Sep-2005 at 10:38
Originally posted by tadamson
Originally posted by great_hunnic_empire
Born in Kurdistan? There is no place called officially or recognised lands in the history..
So you can't claim that he was born in this called land in thousand years ago.. He was a arab, Simple. You probably watched too much of Kingdom of Heaven
Bye for now
For anone interested...
My apologies, the village is now part of Azerbeijan. Kurdistan is the term used by Minhaj al-Siraj Juzjani in the Tabaqat-i-Nasiri (written between 1240 and 1260AD, one of the most important histories of the Islamic world). In this Sultan Salah-ud-Din, Yusuf, son of Aiyub-al-Kurdi fith of the Kurdiah Maliks of Sham gets eight pages (a very respecatable portion of the 1300 or so).
Ok a question to you then, whas one of Salahaddins bro or his close family called Tughril?
Kumans, national composition and the meaning and origin of whose name is being discussed for years are cited under different names in sources. Therefore, they constitute an exception in Turkish societies living insteppes. Byzantines and Latins call them "Kumanos, Kumanoi, Cumanus, Ko-mani", Russians "Polovets", Germans and other Western nations "Falben, Falones, Valani, Valwen, Pallidi", and Armenians "Khartes,", Hungarians "Kun", Muslims "Kipcak" (Kifsak, Khifcakli). The names given by Russians, Germans, other Westerners and Armenians express in fact their color (yello, yellowish, light yellow, straw yellow). In the Russian chronicles where their name is recorded first (memorials of 1055 and 1056), Kumans, who were told to be of the same origin with Turkmens, Pachenegs and Torks (Uzes), were wanted to be defined with rather their outer appearance. Indeed, all sources either of eastern or western origin agree that Kumans were blond with brown hair.
Ibn Hurdadbih (in 885) explained the name Kipchak as ("angry, quick-tempered") in Islamic and Georgian sources and said that Kuman and Kun names meant "yellowish" and "pale" in Turkish dialects. J. Marquart, who conducted the first broad investigation on the origin of Kuman-Kipchaks, alleged that they were from "Kun" clan of Mongol tribe named "Murqa" which he claimed to have lived in the vicinity of Amur river in far east, was not accepted because he read some of the words in the source incorrectly and thought the word "firka" meaning party in Arabic was a name of a nation called "Murqa". This is because, Kumans faces and bodies did not bear any Mongol characteristics and there was no Mongol elements in Kuman-Kipchak language. However, some investigators who examined the racial properties of Kumans established some relations between them and Ariyan races (Indian-Europeans). Some westerner scientists including j. Marquart, P. Pelliot, W. Barthold, D. Rassovsky etc. whom we know that they are not successful in distinguishing both racilaly and culturally Turks from Mongols, stressed that Kuman character which they thought not to pertain to Turks may have derived from an Indian-European nation which became Turks in Mongol region at last.
Even Russian Grum-Grzimajlo dared to claim such society lived in northern China. It was stated that in 2nd century B.C. there was a tribe mentioned in Chinese sources (Khan period) as "brown haired, blue-green eyed" named Wu-sun (or U-sun) which continued their existence after the birth of Christ with a wolf myth which was peculiar to Turks and who were from Hun origin and culture who were called as "Kun-mo" or "Kun-mi" (Kunbeg, Kunbi?) living between the northern slopes of Tanri mountains and Isik Lake in 2nd century B.C. On the other hand, the Islam sources (El Birun about 1050, Mervezi, first quarter of 12th century) reveal that a Turkish tribe named Kun in Middle Asia withdrew to "Sarilar lkesi (Country of the Yellow" (arya) leaving their territories on the attempt of Mongol Kitan state, which was established in Nornther Chine in early 10th century, to conquer the whole continent as Liao destiny in China in 936 in particular. The relation of those Kuns, with "Yellows", with the same meaning, was weighed: For Mervezi, at least a part of Yellows or "Yellow Uygurs" (see Kan-ou Uygur State) who withdrew as far as Aral lake can be associated with "Sa Turgises" which were supposed to be in "Sarigh" town mentioned by Ibn Hurdadbih. Moreover, there are steppes on the way thought to be extended by Kimek country, recorded by Gerdizi as (Ulu Kuman?).
According to the last investigaitons on Kun-Kuman-Yellow Kipchak issue, the situation is as follows: Oghuzes between Itil-Seyhun-Irti in Middle Asia (before Kuman's migration to west), Kipchaks in the vicinity of iim and Kimeks toward Altays; Karluks around Isik Lake, and Yellow Uygurs were to further east in Nan-an region (Sariya in Mervezi). There were Christian Onguts in the vicinity of Huang-ho turn. Kuns were living in those places at those times (Because Mervezi, probably, confusing with Onguts, say that Kums were Christians). Kuns (Kumans) who went to "San" drove with them a mass of Yellow Uygurs and went to Turkmen (Karluk) region from Cungarya gate and then entered Kipchak region in the north. If it is possible to associate the news in Ibn'ul Esir that 300 thousand tents of people went out of China" and wanted to attack Karahanli country but was drawn back by Karahanli Togan Bey at 8-day distance to Balasagun, then we have to accept that the reason turning kun-yellow migration to Kipcak territories should be Karahanli resistance and counter-attack.
In fact, Kipchak mass from Western Gok-Turk societies were a branch from Kimes in Irtis region inhabited in isim-Tobol valleys. Although Kasgarli was from Yimek (mek) tribe and this tribe was considered to be the greatest of Kipchaks, it is said that Kipchaks left themselves apart. We understand from such fact according to Marquart that at those times (in second half of 11th century) Kipchak branch was dominant among Kimeks who lived as a bilateral federation (Kimek=two Yimek meaning two). Such power shift should have occurred in the beginning of the century and Kipchaks, gaining power by Kun (Kuman) Yellows' coming from the south in a period when they dominated territories from Balkas to Irtic, headed towards the west over Volga this time altogether probably because of Kitan pressure in the east and rather because scarcity of place and pasture, and on withdrawal of Uz mass before them to Balkans in 1048, passed to Southern Russia area.
Political History of Kumans
Therefore, Kumans appear for the first time in Russian chronicles in 1054. In this period when their dominance was spread as far as Dnieper, while they maintained "Kipchak" name in the east, they began to be called with the aforementioned names in the west. Kuman (Kipchak) dominance in Northern Black Sea steppes for more than 1.5 centuries until Mongol invasion left deep traces in Russian and Balkan history. Kumans defeated Russians in 1061 after leader Bolus who agreed with Pereyaslavl Knez in 1055, and in 1068, entered Pereyaslavl again on grounds that they took some Uz and Pacheneg groups fleeing them under their service and routed united army of Russian Knezes (Alta river war, near Kiyef); they approached near Cernigo knev country. Kiyef Knez escaped to Poland. Kumans (Kipchaks) who made raids on Rostovstev, Neyatin region in 1071, Voin town in 1079, and Novgorod area the next year, spread their dominance in 1080's as far as Danube mouth from Balkas lake-Talas vicinity, balance center being Don-Dniester.
This land which contained Kuban region in Caucasus was extending as far as Itl Bulgarian border along Oka-Sura rivers in the north. Kuman-Kipchak area which constituted the whole Eastern Europe-Western Siberia Steppe regions were called "Det-i Kipchak" ("Kipchak Steppe") in Islam sources therefrom, and was named "Comania" in western sources (Idrisi, Rubruquis, Plano Carpini etc.) For D. Rassovsky'ye, in this period when Russians, Bulgars, Alans, Burtases (Mordva), Hazars and Ulahs lived under dominance of Ulahs, Kuman-Kipchak country consisted of 5 parts: Middle Asia, Churn-Volga, Don-Donetz, lower Dnieper, Danube.
There Kuman-Kipchaks were living under different units under governance of their own leaders (khans) each, and the allies of Byzantium in Lebunium war were undoubtedly the members of "Danube" unit. In those times, leaders named Altunapa and sarhan were primary people who played a role in "Kipchak Steppe". Kumans first entered Hungaria in1091 and then Poland in 1092, they appeared again in Byzantium territorias in 1093.
Their raids on Russian region continued between 1093 and 1094 too. It is understood that they did not aim at invading territories. As we saw in Pachenegs, they did not leave steppe atmosphere like in all steppe-Turk political community including Hazars, and tried to maintain under pressure the political communities beyond the steppes in order to keep away from external hazards by keeping land appropriate for their own lifestyles.
Peaces realized within the conditions of Turkish territory security used to last as long as the opposite party did not break his promise. Such condition consolidated marriages sometimes. According to an agreement, Tugorkan (or Togur Khan)'s daughter married to Kiyef Knez Svyatopolk (1094); and after that, Cernigov Knez Oleg married to leader Osuluk (Uzluk)'s daughter. Thus, most of the wifes of Knezes and notables were consisting of Kuman princesses and daughters in a period. However, Kuman-Russian relations were not at ease. Because, Knezes tried to provide support from Kumans in their struggles (for example Oleg in 1095) or eliminated the men of Kuman leader with them as soon as they found the opportunity. Two envoys sent to Kiyef in early 1096 (itler and Kitan) were killed with their retinues. The event caused a war. Tugorkan and leader Kure burned some towns, and looted Kiyef and vicinity (May 1096).
However, they lost the war against Knez alliance, Tugorkan and his son died in the war. Kiyef prince Vladimir Monomakli whose two sons were married to the daughters of Kuman leaders behaved more seriously and tried to reconcile Knezes with his general meetings arranged in Liyubec town in 1097 and organize Russian resistance and won a great success against Kumans leading all Knezes in 110/3. Kumans replied with violent attacks in short intervals (4 times between 1105 and 1111). Such struggles filled Russian chronicles and enriched first Russian folk literature. After death of 4th Monomakh, when conflicts between Knezes grew violent again, Kumans could not make use of that. Kuman union in the vicinity of Kiyef which lost its youth and resistant resisting leaders one by one during constant conflicts showed signs of weekness.
Some of the Danube commanders were performing military service in Hungary going there. In the second half of 12th century, we saw that Dnieper Kumans got some better. Those took the offensive against Pereyaslavl Knez country under leadership of Koncek and Kobyak (Kopek) (1177, 1179). Those in the vicinity of Aksu (Bug) made raids toward Kiyef, but were defeated by joint Russian forces in a violent raid led by Knez Svyatoslav in 1184. Rumor has it that they lost 7000 captives among whom there was 417 beys or sons of beys. However, the reaction of Kumans was harsh: They destoryed joint Russian army under the command of Novgorod-Seversk Knez Igor by pressing near lower Don at the coast of Kayali (today's Kagalnik) river. In this war commanded by Leader Koncek, all of the Knezes in Russian army including prince Igor were caught.
They behaved the captives well, and the injuries of Igor, who managed to escape afterwards, was treated. The main subject of Russian national epic (Slovo o Polkii Igoreve) told to be the masterpiece of Russian literature is this 1185 conflict. In this Igor epic, the details of the expedition, nature, heroism, sadness, the cries of Igor's wife were all told skillfully. There emerged some allegations that the text, which was published several times since its first publication in 1800 in Russia, was improvised afterwards, however, there is no doubt that it reflects the historical event and it has a documentary value because it showed Turkish influence on Russians in terms of language, war technique, equipment, mining etc.
Kumans (Kipchaks) in the vicinity of Don and Kuban also had close relations with Georgians which caused their transition to the north of Caucasus. In the beginning of the rule of Georgian king Bagratli David the 2nd (1088-1125) which corresponds to the strongest period of Great Seljukian Empire, he tried to resist Islam-Turkish pressure and if possible, take Abhaza country and other Georgian regions back from Seljukians by providing military support from Kipchaks by establishing contacts with their closest unit to them; and conducted some operations to the south with their assistance (1109-1110), and married a Kipchak princess known for her beauty. This girl was the granddaughter of the aforementioned ledader Saruhan(Charaghan) and daughter of his son Atrak (Atraka) who was acceded to the leadership because of his being old. Atrak went to Georgia with crowded masses (40 thousand families) under his command upon invitation of the king (1118, the first grand immigration). Those Kuman-Kipchak masses revived Coruh and Kur environments "in a unique strength and vastness".
They took under control the Muslim emirates linked to Seljukians and with a horsemen army estimated to be about 40 thousand people, launched expeditions to Sirvan and Azerbaijan. In 1121, they conquered Borcali stream vicinity. In 1123, they made Tiflis they had conquered the capital of Georgian kingdom. In 1124, they advanced as far as Ispir and Oltu. They collected tax from Sirvan Shahs, had constant struggles against Ispir, Mengckl and Artuklu beys and Azerbaijan Atabey country afterwards. Kipchaks, establishing Georgian military force in King Giorgi the 3rd period (1156-1184), became totally dominant with famous leader Kubasar who undertook chief commander position by protecting the king from the rebel army commander Ivane Orbelian.
The Georgian state, which was founded under administration of Kipchak Beys such as Kutlu Arslan, lived its brightest age in military, political and historical aspects with entry of new Kipchak masses under command of Sevinc, brother of Kipchak leader, from the north (second grand immigration: "New Kipchaks") in the period of beautiful queen Thamara (1184-1213). Today, it is noted that people who spoke a language very close to Kipchak Turkish in the vicinity of Kur, Coruh and Cildir lake, had close relations with Kuman-Kipchak masses who came there in the same period and some motifs in regional folk literature bore the memories of that period. Il-Deniz, a notable personage of Seljukian period, who was the founder of Azerbaijan Atabey country (1146-1225), was also a Kipchak Turk from Caucasus.
The Kumans remained in Crimea peninsula apart from those who emptied Don region perhaps even completely and Kuban region partially because of their arrival to Georgia, inhabited in cities and started trade life, and even established some small towns. However, although they occupied Kiyef in 1203 and took Galicia from Hungarians together with Russians for a short period of time, in early 13th century, there was nearly no Kuman communities left politically powerful under "Det-i Kipchak" union. While the ones to the east were living their old tribal lives in steppes under names such as Kipchak, Kangl, Yimek, Uran etc., they increased their contacts with Harezmahlar State "especially in the period of Sultan Alaeddin Tekis" (1172-1200), and took military duties in this Turkish-Islam state and performed great services in enhancing of the borders. In the eve of invasion of the Middle East by Mongols, they comprised nearly all of the military power of Hazemsah empire. However, this army was totally eliminated by Mongols (1220).
Deti Kipcak failed against Mongols. The communities of Kumans in the vicinity of Crimea, who nearly turned to be the assistants of Russians, by being forced to leave the great commercial port of Black Sea and its vicinity to Anatolian Seljukians (1226), could not recover from the damages of the economic shock. Kuman-Kipchaks who were defeated together with Russians (Kalka war) against two Mongol divisions commanded by Cebe and Subatai even in 1223, could not resist the Mongol army commanded by the grandson of Genghis, Batu, who advanced toward inner Det-i Kipchak and ran over Itil Bulgaria routing Russian Knezes' military forces.
In Don-Donetz basin, the forces under leader Koten command were separated (1239) and the leader took refuge in Hungary with those who could save themselves. A crowded community of Kuman-Kipchaks went to Itil Bulgaria and gaining the population majority there, caused generalization of Kipchak Turkish instead of Bulgarian dialect. After Altnordu state was established whole Kipchak steppes being invaded by Mongols (1256), Kuman-Kipchaks had no roles left despite the term "Det-i Kipchak" was used for a long time.
Kuman-Kipchaks showed themselves better in Egypt at the same time. Kuman-Kipchaks whom we saw that because of their being separated and narrowing possibilities had aggreviating life conditions as from early 13th century, began to send against money to other and more prosperous countries their sturdy and healty children in years of scarcity and animal diseases according to an old tradition. Since Eyyubi state had to provide military force from foreigners, Kipchak, Oghuz, Chircassian youth from Det-i Kipchak and Caucasus and trained them in special barracks. At the same time, we see many Kuman-Kipchaks youths went to Egypt and took duty in the army. At last, upon proclamation of zzddin Ay-beg as sultan of Eyyubis in 1250, the Egypt "Turkish State" was seized by Kuman-Kipchak people in a short time.
One of these, Sultan Baybars, succeeding Sultan Kotuz, who was probably also a Kipchak, showed himself as both a powerful soldier and a high statesman (1260-1277). He became the distinguished ruler of his times by reviving Islam caliphate and driving Mongols away from Syria. Sultan Kalavun (1279-1290), who succeeded him, was also a Kipchak. As "the greatest Islam ruler" who defeated Mongol-Armenian-European joint armies, continued his contacts with his native land, had friendly rlations with Altinordu state, and became the founder of first ruler dynasty in Egyptian-Turkish state. His sons reigned the state until the government passed to Circassian Kolemens (1290-1382). The state was referred to as "Turkish State (Ed-Devlet't-Trkiya or Devlet'l-Etrak) within this peirod, and Egypt and Syria were called "Turkey". The common language and common culture for the people was Turkish excluding the local people who spoke Arabic in general. While such situation continued under Circassian rule, the country passed to Ottoman Turks (1517).
Sultan Balaban (1266-1286), who is more commonly called as Ulug Khan, being the founder of the 2nd ruler family in Delhi Turkish Sultanate in India, was also one of Kipchak personages who went to Delhi in his youth and took state service.
I want to talk you about Anotolian Kipchaks. There were also Kipchaks in Anotolia before Seljuks' entrance to Anotolia in 1071. Some of them were the soldiers with salary of Byzantine army. During a war betweeen Byzantine and Seljuk armies, a Kipchak leader (Tam) and his friends see the Seljuks and they realize that: "We have similar clothes and we talk the same language. Then why do we fight them?" So they change side.
There were also Kipchaks in Eflani. When Fatih Sultan Mehmet conquered Bartn (Parthenius) and Amasra (Amastris/Sesamos) in 1490, he put the Kipchaks of Eflani into Bartn where Greek (maybe Armenian too, because it is said that many Greek and Armenian speaking people of Paflogonia converted into and/ selected to be muslims in 1600s) speaking natives and some Oguzs lived.
So Kipchaks began to live in Bartin. Kipchaks speak northwestern dialect of Turkish language and Oguzs speak southwestern dialect of languge. The Turkish language spoken in Bartin is a synthesis of both dilects (A linguistics searher has studied on it and he has observed the registers of title deeds.)
And me... My mother is from Bartn and my mother's family has Kipchak, Oghuz and Rum origins. I read Krzolu's book on Kipchaks. He talks about the kipchak history of Kars and Georgia.
Whatever I know about other Kipchaks is from webs but webs tell only Krm, Memluk Kipchaks and other Kipchaks of Hungary, Lithvania and etc, but there isn't a brief history of Anotolian Kipchaks. My family say that we're Kipchak but they don't know their history.
Kipchaks are part of modern Kazakhs now (or Kazaks, Qazaqs - see www.elim.kz Middle Horde, or Orta Zhuz), as well as some close to Kazaks other Turkic peoples. Egypt rulers - Kipchak Mamluks - Kutuz and Baybars - defeated the so-called "Mongols" (who were all Turkic-speaking guys) in the famous battle at Ain-Jalut (or Ayn-Jalud), because they knew all the traditional Steppe military methods and tricks, and after that they had a conversation with the captured "Mongol" leader - Ketbuqa (who was a Naiman - also part of modern Kazakhs) - using the same Turkic language.
how? Wherent they mongols? Didnt mongol empire never exist then? I heard of subudei whas a Turkic and the whife of Chingiz khan whas also TUrkic but that mongols where a Turkic speaking tribe, never heard of. Can you specify that little bit more please, im interested.
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