Inter-Continental Travel possible pre-Colombus?

Honeybee, you're missing the wider point about Zheng He's expedition. Zheng He wasn't too fascinated in exploring new lands for China (although the places he saw and witnessed were no doubt new and exotic to him in his own lifetime of experiences). Zheng He was under direct creedance with the Imperial Court and trusted by Emperor Yongle to follow a rough/approximate path of sea lanes and tributary contacts already established when the Chinese set up maritime contacts throughout the Indian Ocean during the powerful Tang Dynasty (618-907 AD). Although the seafaring junk ship was something innovated during the ancient Han Dynasty of China, the first Chinese to sail into the Indian Ocean all the way to Sri Lanka and India was a Chinese Buddhist monk named Faxian, who traveled by sea from 399-412 AD. They were a little behind the Romans in getting to India by sea contact, but oh well. As far as I can remember, Zheng He did not sail to the tip of Africa, although he most certainly made stops along the coast of East Africa, which is nothing spectacular since Chinese in previous centuries before him had done so many times (refer to my thread on China's Maritime History, in the East Asia Forum I believe). It's interesting to note that Wang Dayuan of Yuan Dynasty China sailed throughout the Indian Ocean, and then with escorts from Arabians of Aden from 1334-1339 AD, sailed into the Mediterranean and reached as far as Morocco in northern Africa, just below Spain, documenting his travels there. I always wondered what it would be like if the escort from Aden had allowed Wang to sail and land onto European soil in Spain, since that would predate the Portuguese landing in China at Macau by two centuries. Well, history is history.

 

I agree with you, Eric, that if a single people could have reached the Americas they are the Polynesians, definitively. The had several advantages on other peoples:

 

(1) A superb ship: the catamaran, able to travel fast and with security in long distance voyages.

 

(2) They had a superb knowlegde of nativation in the open seas of the Pacific, more advanced that any other people in the planet.

 

(3) They had already reached Easter Island, just 3.000 km from South America by 700 A.C.

 

But well, there is no evidency they did it at all. Actually, Easter Island is a chilean island, of my country, and I know theirs culture relatively well, and I also have had the chance to met Easter Islanders in more that one opportunity. They remember the times Hotu Matua reached the Island (around 700 A.C.) and that landed in Anakena beach, and they can reconstruct all the history of Easter Island from the myths and legends they have. However, they don't recall a contact with the Americas at all.

 

And they were the closest Polynesian group to the Americans, the rest was at least 5.000 km away in the Pacific.

 

Pinguin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I certainly agree on that. Almost all pre-contact theories are just smoke, including the ones of Heyerdahl.

 

I respect Heyerdahl because he studied the Inca balsa rafts,  like the Kon-Tiki, but his theories are just a shame. And the Ra boat was really ridiculous, indeed. Titicaca boats were designed for lakes, not for the Atlantic. See these links please:

 

Heyerdahal Kon Tiki

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

More interesting sites:

 

 

 

And this is the first time Europeans saw the Inca's balsa rafts.

 

 

 

Why are those rafts important? Because they were probably used to transport cargo between Ecuador and Mesoamerica, linking the most important cultural areas of pre-contact Americas in regular trade.

 

Now, for the topic of contact one must say the following:

 

(1) If one wants to be very strict, Asia never was isolated from the Americas. Inuits went back and forth from America to Asia and viceversa for thousand of years. And they not only colonized Boreal North America but also jumped into Greenland (Europe) before the Vikings.

 

(2) Reaching the Mexico or Peru from China, Europe or Africa, by direct navigation was out of the reach of all peoples of the world up to the 8th centuries, when Polynesians landed in Easter Island. The vikings could only have reached Mexico by the 11th century, after landing in New Foundland, and the Arabs only could have reached the Americas after the 13th century, after they had colonized West Africa.

 

(3) There is no evidence whatsoever of pre-columbian contacts that influenced the Olmec, Moche, Tiahuanaco, Maya, Aztec or Inca civilizations.

 

(4) There is evidence Amerindians where isolated during all the period of development of their great civilizations up to 1492. Particularly because of the lack of inmunity to the contagious diseases of Africa-Eurasia, the lack of many plants and animals widespread in Eurasia like pigs and horses, And the lack in the Americas of certain common inventions like the string musical instruments, the wheeled charts, iron and the pottery wheel. (bt contrast, in the old world even the most isolated African tribes had string instruments, cows and knew iron, for instance)

 

(5) Curiously enough, there are certain pausible theories that Amerindians reach Europe before Columbus. I know, that is as crazy as the idea of Zeng He comming to the Americas.

 

But if so many people want to believe fantasies of reaching the Americas, it would be absolutely naughty that the discovery were in the opposite direction

 

In any case, Fernando Colon (Son's of Christopher columbus and author if his bio) describe the presence of Amerindians in Europe that Columbus saw

 

Take a look at this:

 

 

 

 

By the way, Turks didn't discover the Americas.

 

Pinguin

 

Here:

 

 

 

And weren't the Polynesians traveling to/fm other continents?

 

 

 

 

Sorry, this is how I should've said it:

 

 

The point is direct high seas traveling. That was not common at all in pre-columbian times. Sailors followed the coastal lines, and only the Polynesians ventured in completely uncharted, unknown seas.

 

What I don't accept, though, are those fantastic hyperdifussionist theories that claim Phoenicians, Chineses, Indians, Egyptians, the lost tribes of Israel and the Watutsi came back and forth to the Americas at will, "TEACHING" things to the "stupid and ignorant" Amerindians.

 

Those hyperdifussionist theories are plainly racist against Amerindians. Besides, there is not evidence of pre-colombian contact between Olmecs, Mayans, Aztecs, Moches, Chavin, Teotihuacans or Incas (or any other Amerindian civilization or cultures) with the civilizations of the Old World.

 

Now, contacts around the Artic existed. Inuits arrived around the century 1 A.D. probably from Siberia, and ended one thousand years afterwords in Greenland.

 

Crossing the Atlantic or the Pacific across the equator was something different, and it was not attempted. The only guys that have a chance were the Polynesians but there is no evidence they did.

 

The final crossing was done because of several factors the European and Columbus in particular, have at hand: new ships like the caravel, the astrolab, the magnetic compass, the studies of the ancient Greek astronomers that calculated the size of the Earth, and the systematic research of the prince Henry, the Navigator.

 

The age of the discovery it was not casual, at all. And the leading countries were Portugal and Spain. Giving that priviledge to others is just a form of envy, I guess.

 

Pinguin

 

 

 

 

Yes, Inuits have been replacing the so called "Thule" people from the Artic.

Anyways, what I mean is that reaching the Americas from Greenland it was as difficult as to reach Greenland from the Americas. You can do it in a kayak.

 

So, the casual landing in the Americas by the Vikings it was easier and less "challenging" that some folks believe. Besides, Viking settlers failled, and they were gone for many centuries before the second attempt by European to colonize the Americas, which was serious this time.

 

Considering Vikings the "founding fathers" of something in the Americas is just wishful thinking, I believe.

 

Pinguin