QuoteReplyTopic: Forecasts and results of the Communist experiment. Posted: 16-Apr-2012 at 18:34
Good points, Valery, thank you. I have to find reliable studies on the topic, since even in US history books is said that Russia was backward, and communism at least modernized it. After I came to the US I found that I have to relearn the whole history of everything, since all I read up to this point was wrong. I have quite a few books on Russian history, but they use as sources Russian books, and such as were keeping to a large degree the communist POV on Russian history, I suppose because there wasn't any other to be obtained anyway. Even Noam Chomsky stated in a talk I listened to, that Russia was the original Third World, with a big gap between the East and the West that started opening after the 15th century /up to that time they were on the level/with it's highest point at 1910; and the communists, even though having nothing to do with democracy and carried a very brutal regime, industrialized Russia and pulled her up. We know only this what we read, so if members here state something it's usually because they read it somewhere.
If you have some net sources, in Russian or English that I can use to point me, to I'll be most obliged.
Good points, Valery, thank you. I have to find reliable studies on the topic, since even in US history books is said that Russia was backward, and communism at least modernized it. After I came to the US I found that I have to relearn the whole history of everything, since all I read up to this point was wrong. I have quite a few books on Russian history, but they use as sources Russian books, and such as were keeping to a large degree the communist POV on Russian history, I suppose because there wasn't any other to be obtained anyway. Even Noam Chomsky stated in a talk I listened to, that Russia was the original Third World, with a big gap between the East and the West that started opening after the 15th century /up to that time they were on the level/with it's highest point at 1910; and the communists, even though having nothing to do with democracy and carried a very brutal regime, industrialized Russia and pulled her up. We know only this what we read, so if members here state something it's usually because they read it somewhere.
If you have some net sources, in Russian or English that I can use to point me, to I'll be most obliged.
I work at plant and consequently I have a little free time for work on
the Internet. Work at plant gives me money for
life, purchase of the new computer and payment of the house Internet.
Procedure of translation from Russian into English and back takes away from me
a lot of time too. Besides, I am engaged not only answers in discussions at
several American forums, but also I translate from Russian into English the new
my articles. For example, I translate now the article about results of my
sociometric researches at school on purpose to help teachers to put things in
order at a lesson. This article will be the answer to your letter to me.
Besides, I plan to translate the articles about social formations, the forms of
government, political regimes and Russian way of development of society.
Therefore I ask me to excuse for delays with my answers.
I consider myself not as the
historian, but I am sociologist and psychologist therefore I have no desire to
spend the time for studying of primary sources on history and economy of the
Russian Empire. Russia aspired to catch up with the West in technical,
military, economic and political development since the beginning 17
century under russian emperor Peter 1.
Russia lagged behind not strongly from Western Europe in this development. Military victories of Russia over some
countries the West serve as the proof of it, for example military victories
over Poland, Sweden, France and Prussia . The victoryin war served as criterion of degree of development
of the country always. Russia lost the Crimean war against Britain and France because
Russian army lagged only for a second
behind in weapon development (allies had military steamships, the railways
instead of horse vehicles, the cut weapon and revolvers instead of the
smooth-bore weapon).
In the first, Bolsheviks constructed plants which made machines of poor
quality in Russia, it was impossible to sell these machines in the world market. Then why these
plants were necessary? Many of these plants were ruined, were closed and
destroyed for the last 20 years. For example, the automobile plant of a name of
Likhachyov was almost closed in Moscow. It is possible to give very much by
similar examples. It is possible to build the plants, capable to made
competitive production only under capitalism.
Secondly, many these plants, channels, hydroelectric power stations and
the railways were constructed by hands of prisoners, and the prison slave
labor was inefficient always. For
example, the channel from the White sea to the Baltic Sea was constructed by hands of prisoners by means of a shovel
and a wheelbarrow, without use of excavators and lorries. There was such joke
that 10 prisoners with shovels and 1 security guard with a rifle replace the
excavator. This channel is constructed on bones of prisoners. One teacher of a
German nationality by family name of Rommel had told me that her father
together other sent Germans built paper plant in the city Solikamsk, the sent
Germans dug trenches in the winter under
the foundations of shops by means of
shovels and wheelbarrows. The father of this teacher could survive by means of profession change, it
passed from navvies in turners.
The organization of collective farms is a full nonsense of tyrant
Stalin, this campaign led to destruction of the most effective export branch of
an economy of Russia, to hunger in Russia. My great-grandfather rich peasant
Alexander Starikov was plundered by communists at that time.
Big terror decapitated Red army
in 1937-1938 on the eve of war. Big terror and the Moscow processes brought to
destruction of almost all Soviet skilled officers and generals before the war
with Germany in 1941. As a result of 5 million Soviet soldiers was taken
prisoner during 1941-1948. My grandfather Trifon Mokshin was lost in an
environment under the city Bryansk at this time.
We consider today unacceptable
such way of development of Russia.
Thank you, Valery, for the valuable info. Take your time, and write in your choice and leisure. From my Bulgarian communist experience - the same thing here with the plants - low quality, only for the Russian market /the Bulgarian economy was producing exclusively for Russia, with a little bit for Cuba, no even in the other communist countries wanted the production, it was so bad/, and they were artificially subsidized from the state. All this fell apart after Bulgaria lost it's Russian markets, the factories cannot be even sold because the machinery was so outdated. I worked for 4 years in a plant that produced motocars for Russia, and for a time did quality control, so I know what terribly wide margin for error the metal parts had - messy works at best, botched at worse, and no one cared. So, the modernization in Bulgaria was only a facade, to hide how low the quality of this "modernization" was, it all areas.
Thank you, Valery, for the valuable info. Take your time, and write in your choice and leisure. From my Bulgarian communist experience - the same thing here with the plants - low quality, only for the Russian market /the Bulgarian economy was producing exclusively for Russia, with a little bit for Cuba, no even in the other communist countries wanted the production, it was so bad/, and they were artificially subsidized from the state. All this fell apart after Bulgaria lost it's Russian markets, the factories cannot be even sold because the machinery was so outdated. I worked for 4 years in a plant that produced motocars for Russia, and for a time did quality control, so I know what terribly wide margin for error the metal parts had - messy works at best, botched at worse, and no one cared. So, the modernization in Bulgaria was only a facade, to hide how low the quality of this "modernization" was, it all areas.
I has worked 11 years as electrician. Earlier I worked as the electrician at ski factory, I was engaged in repair of woodworking benches. I remember that one of benches was made in Bulgaria by "Rodopi" firm, as the Bulgarian cigarets. All details of electric circuit of this machine broke during a year therefore I had received a task to replace all these broken details on the details made in the USSR, and to simplify electric circuit, to make it more reliable in work. Besides, there were benches, presses and the automatic lines made in USSR, Finland and Western Germany at ski factory therefore I had possibility to compare quality of the benches made in the different countries. The Finnish benches were made by "Makron" firm. The benches made in Finland and Western Germany, had the first-rate quality. I had to repair even one German bench which has been taken out from Germany as a trophy after the termination of the Second World War which fulfilled in Russia 35 years.
Today I work in corporation Uralkali which is engaged in production of potash fertilizers. I repair conveyors and other electric equipment of the Russian, Ukrainian and German production. The German equipment made by "Siemens" firm, has excellent quality again.
I don't doubt your experience with Bulgarian production. I had as a neighbour the boss of one Bulgarian metal-working factory, and after the communism fell he made a contract with a German factory; so he used to complain a lot that the Germans were so "picky", and returned the production en masses, only because of "1/4 of so if the inch variations from the required size"! He considered this "capitalist bone-picking", and class war made in Bulgaria by the capitalist countries. The guy was used sending deffective production to the USSR and having no problems. Of course the factory failed in a no time on the free market, I don't know who owns it now.
I have a friend who works for a long time as a electritian in a bread-making factory, that was bought some years ago by Greeks; she is a graduated engeneer, and was deeply ashamed by what the simple Greek electritians with no education knew and could do comparing to what she knew; "I wasted my time on a false diploma, I know nothing" she used to say. She told me that the Greeks threw away all existing machinery and brought completely new stuff, that works well, before with the old machines she was constantly on a call to fix and refix time and again one and the same thing, now she is bored....the machines work so well.
So much for the modernisation communism brought in Bulgaria...everything that had been created in that period is worth nothing now, and the old workers have very low work ethics, due to teh reasons you wrote so extensively on.
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