Historical maps of Bulgaria

Well, dear Digenis, i think, that this map substantiate your assertions: i think you can see that the territories between Solun-Seres-Drama-Mesta river and the Aegean coast are really settled mainly with greeks & turks, but the territories, who are in the north of this area are settled mainly with bulgarians. In the cities of Seres and Drama were living also many bulgarians, not only greeks & turks. In fact, i must say, that the bulgarians VERY rarely were reached the Aegean coast, but not "never". And also the territories around Kilkis, Edesa, Kastoria, Florina, Gianitsa and Goumenissa was settled mainly with bulgarians(or slavophones if you want). Therefore the biggest part of the hinterland of Solun, was settled mainly with bulgarians http://vmro.150m.com/en/carnegie/Macedonia-Bulgarian_view.jp g



Also, you can follow this link and to learn more: http://vmro.150m.com/en/carnegie/

Enjoy...

About Western Thrace i can write later. I have a big ethnic map, and i must scan this map and to upload them. But i have some problem with the uploading, and i don`t know why. I must try with another browser, or with reinstalation of the operating system on my computer.





Edited by The Chargemaster

Now, with Mozilla Firefox 1.5.1 i can upload what i want! Dear Digenis, i recommend to you, try Firefox and his great extensions if you are not using this browser yet!  This is the map and it`s already uploaded:





Now you can answer. I think that this map substantiate a big part of our (your and my) assertions at the same time. About Western Thrace i think that i can upload my ethnic map, but later.

If you have some ethnic maps of Macedonia, Western Thrace and Eastern Thrace, for me will be interesting to see them, because i have many ethnic maps of many regions too. If you take a look in my profile you will see what are my interests.

Also, for me is interesting this: have you got some ethnik maps of Mikra Asia before 1922 and have you some maps of the Greek campaign for the Liberation of Mikra Asia between 1919 - 1922? I think, that this war is too little known in Bulgaria. The theme of this topic is different, but i think that if someone make new topic for this war, this will be great...


Edited by The Chargemaster

Hi Chargemaster. Let me first say that I fully respect the fact that the wider geographic area of Macedonia was (and still is) a patchwork of different nationalities, mostly Greek, Slav and Turkish (more in the past than now).

But trying to prove anything these with maps, it's not possible and -more important- you try to hide the truth that the map that you posted it "the Bulgarian view". See here the full map and not the piece that you posted: http://www.kroraina.com/knigi/karnegi/Macedonia-Bulgarian_vi ew.jpg

If you want to see propaganda maps have a look on this serbian one:

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/balkan_dialects_19 14.jpg

In any case, speaking generally, I do believe that there was a very sizable population of Bulgarians in Macedonia who were forced to leave or assimilate. Same thing has happened with the Greek population that was within Bulgarian borders (much less in numbers that the Bulgarians within Greek borders). There was a formal exchange of populations between greece and Bulgaria.

Second Balkan war, First World War and the Bulgarian occupation of Macedonia during WWII, didn't make things easy for either one of the populations, but since greece emerged victorious in all three of these conflicts, it's easy to understand that those who felt more the pressure of the wwar were the Bulgarians. Although the Greeks were also terribly oppressed during 1941 - 1944 by the Bulgarian army and the attempts to "Bulgarize" the area.

That was part of the creation of ethnic states, which is responsible for much of the ethnik cleansing in the area and the root of many of the troubles that still devastate the Balkans.

Ethnic exchanges & expulsions between 1912 and 1915
	Ottomans	Greeks	Bulgarians
Greek Macedonia		100,000	50,000
Greek+Serbian Macedonia			100,000
Thrace		150,000-160,000
Eastern section of Thrace			51,000
Western section of Thrace	40,000-50,000
Bulgaria-Ottoman Empire Boarder	47,000		49,000
Totals	190,000-200,000	150,000-160,000	250,000

 

 

 

 

so what happened to the bulgars and the avars? they just merged with the slavs and died out.... or something

But trying to prove anything these with maps, it's not possible...

Yes dear Yiannis, i know. I know that is impossible(or very hard) for anyone, to prove anything to one greek. But, no problem, i don`t care.

...and -more important- you try to hide the truth that the map that you posted it "the Bulgarian view".

Oh, great God !!! Yiannis, are you able to see THE LINK in my first post about this map?    ===>

the territories between Solun-Seres-Drama-Mesta river and the Aegean coast are really settled mainly with greeks & turks, but the territories, who are in the north of this area are settled mainly with bulgarians. In the cities of Seres and Drama were living also many bulgarians, not only greeks & turks. In fact, i must say, that the bulgarians VERY rarely were reached the Aegean coast, but not "never". And also the territories around Kilkis, Edesa, Kastoria, Florina, Gianitsa and Goumenissa was settled mainly with bulgarians(or slavophones if you want). Therefore the biggest part of the hinterland of Solun, was settled mainly with bulgarians http://vmro.150m.com/en/carnegie/Macedonia-Bulgarian_view.jp g

What is written on the link? I see this - "Macedonia-Bulgarian_view.jp g". But what you see?

And in my next post i see this:

This is the map and it`s already uploaded

But maybe you see something different, OR WHAT ?! Is this just a missunderstanding/mistake, or what? PLEASE post some explanation.

THE TRUE REASON FOR THE CROPPING OF THIS MAP IS, that when the users in this forum want to upload some image, the size of this image cannot be more than 200 kb !!! And please, dear Yiannis, save this map to your hard-drive and take a look: what is the size of the map? I think, it is 197,99 kb.     

Although the Greeks were also terribly oppressed during 1941 - 1944 by the Bulgarian army and the attempts to "Bulgarize" the area.

In fact, this "bulgarization" found expression only in the return in these lands of one part of the bulgarians, who were living there up to 1924 year. What is "the badly thing" in the return and in the home-coming of one part of these bulgarians who were repressed by the greeks between 1913-1924?

 

And finally, please, can someone post here some ethnic map of Macedonia or Thrace (but for the times before 1913 or 1922/4), which will be defined from EVERY USER in this forum like a "non-propaganda" and like a "true/reliability map"?

I am afraid, that not...

Edited by The Chargemaster

This is a ethnic map, made in 1912 year:

This is the ethnical distribution in Thrace in 1912 year, zoomed:

 

I think, that in principle the most part of the proto-bulgarians looks like today`s kazakhs, who are living in Central Asia.

Yes, i am a bulgarian. The bulgarian (in principle) do consider himselv as a slavic man. Just like the serbians, the croatians, the russians and the other slavs. In fact, i think that i am more with thracian roots, than slavic. In the same time most of the bulgarians have big percent slavic blood and slavic features. I think that the slavic blood in me is big percent too, but the features of my face are more thracian, than slavic.

I think, you are serbian... or some man who are speaking serbo-croatian language. Is this right?

And i think, that the serbians thinks that the today`s bulgarians are tatars or some turkic people. THIS IS WRONG. The ancient proto-bulgarians were like a drop in the Slavic see and they were assimilated between VIII-X century.

Edited by The Chargemaster

I think that noone knows for sure about the face-features of the ancient thraces, but i think that theyr faces are similar with the faces of the ancient greeks, or with the faces of today`s kurds. I am not absolutely sure about this.

One map form this site: http://www.vmro-rousse.hit.bg/

Maps in hungarian language, from this site - http://terkepek.adatbank.transindex.ro/belso.php3?nev=269

A map of: the boundaries of Bulgaria according to some proposals and agreements in XIX century; also - the boundaries of the Bulgarian Exarchate and the boundaries of the Third Bulgarian Kingdom between 1913 - 1918: 

The Bulgarian Exarchate and the Constantinople Patriarchate - the percents of their members in the dioceses up to the Balkan wars:

Ethnic Macedonia up to 1913 year. On the small map - the Ilinden Uprising in 1903 year:

The percents of the muslim bulgarians(pomaks) in Southern Bulgaria:

Bulgarian territorial losses after the Second Balkan War and after the First World War. On the small map - the territories which were restored/handed back to Bulgaria according to the agreement with Turkey in 1915 year - for inducement of the bulgarian government to join the Central Axes in the First World War:

The Third Bulgarian Kingdon in the time of the Second World War, between 1941 - 1944:

Map of the Bulgarian territorial losses after the Second World War.

--------  - The Greek territorial pretences/claims and

_..._..._ - The Bulgarian territorial pretences/claims

Another map with the bulgarian territorial changes after 1878 year. On the small map - the Second Bulgarian Kingdom by the rule of Tsar Yoan II Asen (1218 - 1240):