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First World War.

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Sarmata View Drop Down
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  Quote Sarmata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: First World War.
    Posted: 16-Dec-2004 at 00:21
I feel that the First World war was inevitable and every nation provoked it somehow, it was an age of empires, Austro Hungary, germany, Russia(because of the revolutions and such it caused problems for her), and England, France also, had a powerful army at the time, but the main focus here was Austro Hungary, Germany, and Russia. They all ruled over different races of people, especially Slavs, and seeing the growing Pan Slavism in the 19th century,a nd romanticism, and Nationalism, all these nations were tired of being ruled over and all were looking for some kind of war. Gavrilo prinzip(I think thats how you spell it, i hope thats the name Im lookin for ) a part of the black hand surly was threatened by the Austro Hungarian empire, and had enough balls or was just that much of an extreme nationalist or romanticist to do soemthing about it, russia got involved because showing help to the other Slavic nations and might win the trust of the other slavs and eventually Russia would be a leader of the Slav nations. Germany saw this opportunity for expansion and domination and involved itself helping Austro-Hung. perhaps evening absorbing or uniting with austr-Hung to build a huge german Empire. Basically the First World War has been a build up of a whole bunch of sh*t starting form around the nelightenment era....or later
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  Quote Romano Nero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2004 at 00:54

Actually, WWI became "inevitable" only after the Franco-Prussian war of 1870... that left a great deal of sh*te, as you put it, in rather poor order and someone had to sort it out.

But both WWs can be viewed (as WW2 is really the conclusion the first WW was so badly missing) as part of the same continuum, that didn't start off with the enlightment, but with the industrial revolution (you can add the French revolution in that very same series of events) and had a to do with the disrepancies of the newly found capitalist system and of the - in decline during the early 20th century - colonization.

It was a long and painful process that resulted in the creation of a new global political, economical and social order... which is anything but static, mind you, but for the greater part is in a rather definite form for the past 60 years.

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  Quote Slickmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2004 at 12:23

Originally posted by Sarmata

I feel that the First World war was inevitable and every nation provoked it somehow, it was an age of empires, Austro Hungary, germany, Russia(because of the revolutions and such it caused problems for her), and England, France also, had a powerful army at the time, but the main focus here was Austro Hungary, Germany, and Russia. They all ruled over different races of people, especially Slavs, and seeing the growing Pan Slavism in the 19th century,a nd romanticism, and Nationalism, all these nations were tired of being ruled over and all were looking for some kind of war. Gavrilo prinzip(I think thats how you spell it, i hope thats the name Im lookin for ) a part of the black hand surly was threatened by the Austro Hungarian empire, and had enough balls or was just that much of an extreme nationalist or romanticist to do soemthing about it, russia got involved because showing help to the other Slavic nations and might win the trust of the other slavs and eventually Russia would be a leader of the Slav nations. Germany saw this opportunity for expansion and domination and involved itself helping Austro-Hung. perhaps evening absorbing or uniting with austr-Hung to build a huge german Empire. Basically the First World War has been a build up of a whole bunch of sh*t starting form around the nelightenment era....or later

Yeah,every major player in the war had some fault for the start

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  Quote dark_one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2004 at 20:48
and had enough balls

He actually had a terminal illness. if I did I'd do a a brave and dangerous thing too. Too bad he killed the man who actually cared about slavs and would have come to pwoer in 2 years.
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  Quote pytheas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2004 at 20:51
So what did the powers that were left standing/sulking at the end of the war learn from the experience?  Anything, or just that might made right?  Did Facisim grow from the experiences both during the war and the direct affects of the Treaty of Verseilles?
Truth is a variant based upon perception. Ignorance is derived from a lack of insight into others' perspectives.
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  Quote dark_one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2004 at 20:55
 The powers learned nothing. If people learned something from war we would only have one. They did make stupid conclusions that as long as America isn't involved tehy're fine and that Russia is weak and easily conquered.
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2004 at 22:31
Yeah, and the nightmare they caused made them oh so repentent and pacifist, so that they put their hope into hopeless ideas like the League of Nations and the Kellogg Briand Pact, which in the end made democracy lose its nerve when faced with Hitler and Mussolini.
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2004 at 18:05
I think what lead to war was the failure of the conference System. Mainly because it was often to dificult to get all the relevant sides into one city. This was what lead to the establishment of the league of Nations and eventually the UN. These institutions were meant to provide an opportunity to settle any conflict which might arise in a civil manner. Diplomats would not have to wait for correspondance, how they can speak face-to-face. In July 1914 the lack of communication between the European powers lead to speculation and ultimately a irrational and ignorant decision for war.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2004 at 20:56

it had to do with the establishment of Israel and the complete collapse of Christendom (in which the tsar ruled over all christian people, including the Holy Roman Empire)

we are not taught this in school. it is not in encyclopedias. you will only find this by adding things up for yourself.

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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2004 at 09:30
Originally posted by oblivionWe

it had to do with the establishment of Israel and the complete collapse of Christendom (in which the tsar ruled over all christian people, including the Holy Roman Empire)

we are not taught this in school. it is not in encyclopedias. you will only find this by adding things up for yourself.

This is very fascinating I encourage you to elaborate if you can. How did the collapse of Chistendom as you call it aide the outbreak of war in 1914. The Zionist movement didn't really begin until after the war, while the Balfour Declaration I believe was drafted in the late stages of the war and afterwards. I must bring to your attention that by "adding things up for yourself", you can very easily distort the facts.

Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.

-- Voltaire
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  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2005 at 13:23
Originally posted by Kubrat

They are all to blame.  Their greed is what sparked the war, greed for power and dominance.

And of course, every country has this, so .....


I think France and Great Britain with their little "Entente Cordiale" are to blame.
Germans believed (correctly) that there was a conspiracy to keep them from acquiring a nice colonial empire. Everything else that started WWI was just a pretext.
Also French had a fixation on regaining Alsace-Lorraine lost in a previous war.
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  Quote TheOrcRemix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2005 at 23:29
True peace is not the absence of tension, but the presence of justice.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 14:13

Have any of you noticed the similarities between the outbreak of WWI and the first Punic war. Two big powers (or alliances) stare menacingly at each other, tension builds and eventually some ridiculously insignificant incident starts an incredibally bloody war. For world war 1 it was Sarajevo and for the Punic war it was Messana and Rome decision to stand by and defend a band of mercenaries who had seized a city. Also if you look on WW2 and the second Punic war bear a stark resemblence. Power looses war, looses land and pride, forced to pay hefty reparations and then a charismatic leader comes along promises revenge and whala you have a war. Politicians should really study history.

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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Apr-2005 at 17:48
Here is what I see as the five most important underlying causes of the war?

1. The Alliance System

2. The Arms Race

3. Colonial Rivalry

4. Nationalism

5. Franz Ferdinand's assassination
Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.

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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 02:30

KuK dragged in Germany, Russia dragged in France and, together with the entry of Germany, Britain

 More like France dragged in russia, we even built a railway network so that they can carry more troops to the west.

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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 02:37

If the United States did not enter the First World War we can assume that Germany would have  won and therefore gain their elusive goal of a vast Colonial Empire.

 And where did you get that nonsense. The americans didn't contribute much during the last German failed offensive, they were supplied mostly with french and british equipment. In fact the intervention of the americans worsens the situation, if the americans weren't involved, France and Britian would have dismantled Germany completely and Germany would have never seen the day again. In fact the Italian played a far more important role than american by diverting the German attention on the austro-italian front line.

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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 14:10
Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl

 More like France dragged in russia, we even built a railway network so that they can carry more troops to the west.

?

no, France had no interests in the balkans, only the alliance formed with the Russians brought France into WW1, or rather brought WW1 to France...

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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 20:20

?

no, France had no interests in the balkans, only the alliance formed with the Russians brought France into WW1, or rather brought WW1 to France...

 This is what it appeared to be. France intention was to enter the war sooner or later. The alliance with russia was devised by France to place germany btw a hammer and a hard place. French engineers were active in the area long even before the war started, building a railway to move troop to assault the german east front line as well as helping russia modernising. Infact this is what saved France during the battle of Marne, the germans and austrian had to divert troops on the eastern front rather than fighting on the western front.

 

 Check the chronology

  • 1. Germany declares war on Russia.
  • 1. France orders mobilization.
  • 2. Germany demands free passage through Belgium.
  • 3. Germany declares war on France.
  • It is clear that Germany didn't move on the eastern front but rather  on the western front. A declaration of war on russia was like a declaration of war on France. But France was smart not to declare war but to order mobilisation only. The germans were not stupid to mobilise on the eastern front and receive the full french forces from the west. Basically the Germans made all the wrong moves politically (but militarily they were right) and they can clearly be accused of intiating the war together with Austria. Of course France and russia were far from being innocent, germany was just taking the bait. 

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      Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2005 at 16:58
    I know that the only purpose fot eh Russia-France alliance was eventual revenge on Germany, put it was Russia that staretd the war on Germany, France wouldn't have entered the war without teh entry of Germany. this started out as a conflcit between Russia and Austria, you see Russia was first.
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      Quote The Golden Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2005 at 16:57

    Originally posted by pytheas

    So what did the powers that were left standing/sulking at the end of the war learn from the experience?  Anything, or just that might made right?  Did Facisim grow from the experiences both during the war and the direct affects of the Treaty of Verseilles?

    Well said, and the answer is yes.

    We are all a result of what we have lived. Culture, attitude, perspective. For everything we do, there is a reason. There is no true evil, only the absence of proper communication.
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