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Israel vs Lebanon, the sequel
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Posts: 4221 		  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Israel vs Lebanon, the sequel
    Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 09:00
Gentlemen and ladies, PLEASE note:
 
I want to remind everyone that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is BLACKLISTED.
 
As long as the discussion applies to military actions, and the roles of HAMAS and HEZBOLLAH (both of which are Syrian-Iranian stooges) I feel the issue is Israel-Iran; and by extension, Iran-US.
 
In that case, I think the discussion is valid.  DON'T MAKE IT ISRAEL-PALESTINIAN, or someone is likely to lock the topic.
 
Thanks.
 
 


Edited by pikeshot1600 - 14-Jul-2006 at 09:01
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Posts: 527 		  Quote docyabut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 09:16
A question guys,
 
Did`nt bin laden on a  tape the other day  say to kill all the  sh*tes .Hizbollah is suni ,and Hammas is sh*te  or is it  vice verus?
 
 Its seem to be me that bin laden  has started all this with the notion to bring Israel into it.  
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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 09:51
Confused dont over estimate him.
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 10:23
Originally posted by Sparten

I disagree. This is like a dream come true for all of them. Israel is jumping headlong into a war with no clear objectives.

What  the hezbi wanted from this, i honestly dont know nor do i know what iran/syria aims are either. Maybe its a Iran driven diversion or syrian-hamas support for gaza, either way my guess is that the aims were originally tactical not strategic.  I dont think syria wants a war or Iran wants to fully play its hezbi card now. So saying this, the intiative is playing to israel advantage as they test the counter parties nerves (and balls to put it bluntly) and playing things at the tempo and intensity of their choosing. This isnt simply about terrirtory.


 
Originally posted by Sparten

It cannot be for the soldiers, you don't send an mechanized division (15,000 men plus 5000 vehicals) to rescue two men, you have Spec Ops for that. Isreal's attacks are only strenghtening Hizbollah. They can march all the way up to Beruit, but the problem is that they can't hold the land (destroying a gurellia organization like Hizbollah needs you to occupy the land first), and the Syrians are almost certainly going to get involved, if they get as far as Beruit.

im sure the isrealis arent planning to rescue anyone with an armoured divison, im also sure their spec opps are already in lebanon and syria  when everyone is watching their jets on CNN. I hold alot of respect for hezbi's fighting prowess, they wont be beaten with this nor do i think that is israels aim. I do feel you underestimate the Isrealis somewhat in your posts.

Originally posted by Sparten

The thank you notes in Olmert's office are from Damascus. And Tehran

Olmert is making sure that he is seen as tough as sharon. This is his test. sharon would of done the same and he is making sure that hezbi understand that he is no different.
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Posts: 2252 		  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 10:29
Originally posted by pikeshot1600

Originally posted by malizai_

Well said Sparten.
 
The poor americans, they dont understand y arabs and moslems hate them. aaaaahh....
 
Well it might just be because they are the fist in the israeli glove. US, the lackeys or coolies of israel, veto again. It reinforces spartens view, that he is correct to hold, based on the profane observations he makes.
 
U.S. vetoes U.N. condemnation of Israel
 
"The United States was alone in voting against the resolution. Ten of the 15 Security Council nations voted in favor, while Britain, Denmark, Peru and Slovakia abstained."
 
"Eight of the last nine vetoes in the council have been cast by the United States. Of those, seven concerned the Israel-Palestinian conflict."
 
Then the americans have the audacity to tell the rest of the world they dont understand why they are so hated in that part of the world.
 
USA is the tool of oppression in the ME and it shamelessly knows it.
 
International politics is such a simple subject for you isn't it?  Have you thought of applying to the Foreign Office?  They could use your vast knowledge and observation skills.
 
 
 
Great argument Pike, i wouldnt expect nothing less from you.Clap
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Posts: 4221 		  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 11:00
Well, if you "wouldnt expect nothing less." I imagine the F.O. won't be interested.
 
 
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Posts: 4221 		  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 11:13
Leonidas:
 
Iran's enemy is not Israel per se, it is the United States.  Hamas and Hezbollah do Iran's bidding because that is where the money comes from.  If rocket attacks by these groups endanger Israeli safety, and Israeli soldiers are attacked, Israel responds.  What would one expect?
 
Then, the fact that Geo Bush can't stop Israel's actions with a phone call makes it look like: (A) the US is the bad guy calling the shots; (B) the US is a tool of Israel.  Either way, the US loses in the public relations arena.  The boys in the funny hats high five each other having drawn attention away from their obfuscating nuclear activities and distracting the G-8 discussions.  More difficult to do anything about them.  Too many crises.  Smile  Dead Lebanese Christians are scalps for Iranian mullahs.  The Iranian gang is the proximate cause, and someone else takes all the heat.  I can hear the laughter from here.
 
The amazing thing to me, is that so many people on the AE forums buy into their game.  That they have a hard time connecting dots.  Syria, BTW is just the intermediary.  As far as I know, Iranian blood money props up that train wreck as well.
 
Just my opinion though.  Wink
 
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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 11:16
 If rocket attacks by these groups endanger Israeli safety, and Israeli soldiers are attacked, Israel responds.
 
attacking civil targets is not just responding.
 


Edited by Mortaza - 14-Jul-2006 at 11:17
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Posts: 4030 		  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 11:39
It's enough, already. If one country's "security" means the rest of the Middle East must be brought to its knees and live on with a foot to its neck, then the sick people who think that's okay don't deserve security and should certainly never expect to get it.

We're watching the same war that happened in 1978, the same war that happened in 1982... if the Syrians come back to Lebanon, it'll be a complete replay.

I'm just wondering - since Israel is already targetting public transportation infrastructure (Madrid, London, Mumbai, Beirut?) how long it'll be until we see a repeat of 1996. Anyone remember the United Nations base, filled with women and children seeking refuge from earlier bombings, that Israel pounded? Roughly 100 people were slaughtered.

That's not self defense, that's the effect of telling people they've been chosen by God to cleanse the land of "Arab dogs" and be the superior beings they are, from the Med to the Euphrates. That's facism.


Edited by Mila - 14-Jul-2006 at 11:43
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Posts: 2728 		  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 11:52
It's kinda of funny that a few months ago peace almost seemed like a real possibility with Israel moving out of parts of Gaza and Soth of Lebenon I believe. Now all those areas they gave up are being used as bases against them. Thats exactly what some of the Israeli government wanted and now I don't see any progress happening. In order for peace to work it always takes two sides not one.
That being said, I'm still not siding with Israel, I just thought it was kind of ironic since everyone complains that Israel doesn't want peace yet they were willing to forcibly kick people out of their own territory to make some headway. And it was a start, was...
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Posts: 4030 		  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 12:02
There are dynamics at play most of the world doesn't know about. Ultra-Orthodox Jews do not have to serve in the Israeli army and, over the past 50 years, this has created a great resentment among other Israelis.

"We serve and die in the army to protect you, so you can have 10 kids, none of which have to serve, and populate settlements so we get to serve and die more?"

Etc. It's a much more common, privately held sentiment that you might think. "End the occupation, for our sake!" as they say.

Gaza never had the support of the Israeli public anyway, nor does the West Bank (though it has more).
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Posts: 2252 		  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 13:19
Originally posted by pikeshot1600

 
Well, if you "wouldnt expect nothing less." I imagine the F.O. won't be interested.
 
It wasnt the FO that vetoed, it was mr Bolton. And stop trying to personalise the issue. So spare us the BS, since you r going to need to with justifications like the one given below.
 
Originally posted by pikeshot1600

 
the fact that Geo Bush can't stop Israel's actions
 
 
 
Just like a wolf can not keep its teeth from bititng.
US should learn to keep its  d*g on a leash and muzzled.
 
 
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Posts: 2979 		  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 13:47
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

It's kinda of funny that a few months ago peace almost seemed like a real possibility with Israel moving out of parts of Gaza and Soth of Lebenon I believe. Now all those areas they gave up are being used as bases against them. Thats exactly what some of the Israeli government wanted and now I don't see any progress happening. In order for peace to work it always takes two sides not one.
That being said, I'm still not siding with Israel, I just thought it was kind of ironic since everyone complains that Israel doesn't want peace yet they were willing to forcibly kick people out of their own territory to make some headway. And it was a start, was...
 
 
Israel doesnt want peace and never did.
 
the withdraw from Gaza was for two reasons, one the illegal settlers were high maintenance and their protection costed Israel alot, second reason was to have better and harsher control over Gaza and that by targeting any place they want without caring about their settlers getting attacks in close proximity.
 
Gaza is like a huge prison where Israel controls everything getting in and out and kill whoever it wants and destroy whatever it wants anytime.
 
and that what is happening.
 
----
 
south lebanon did not serve Israel and again it costed them alot.
 
--------
 
the real funny and ironic part is that many westerners think of Israel as a Peace seeking nation,
 
its Israel which occupy others land , its Israel which has the most advanced and organised military power in the region,
 
if it wants peace it should FIRST end its occupation and leave TOTALLY from the Arabic lands,
 
after doing that it should compensate its victims for the Crimes it committed against them for more than 50 years.
 
then we would think that its looking for peace.
 
its not and never wanted peace, all the problems are its own making, thanks to the US's blind support.
 
 
 
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Posts: 4361 		  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 14:28
Originally posted by azimuth

 
 
 
if it wants peace it should FIRST end its occupation and leave TOTALLY from the Arabic lands,
 
after doing that it should compensate its victims for the Crimes it committed against them for more than 50 years.
 
then we would think that its looking for peace.
 
 
 
Sure, and at the same time should the entire Arab and Islamic world acknowledge the right of Israel and its people to exist.


Edited by Komnenos - 14-Jul-2006 at 14:28
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wow, two live-yet-captive-at-the-hands-of-terrorist Israeli soldiers' lives are not only worthy of a war on another nation without any attempt at negotiation, but also the collective punishment being reaped upon the Lebanese population through murder and the blockade and destruction of their infrastructure.
 
I would expect nothing less from the Nazis *cough* Zionists in Tel-Aviv. Hitler himself could not have hoped for an easier pretence.
 
It would be like the UK declaring war on the Republic of Ireland for IRA Sin-Fein's actions, though the UK, being a civilised nation unlike Israel, would never commit such a blatant atrocity, even less, get away with it.
 


Edited by Zagros - 14-Jul-2006 at 14:52
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     By doing this, Israel justifies all Palestinian terrorism. Afterall, Palestinian militant groups were bombing public places for their "security" as well.
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The constant turmoil in the middle east won't have a solution any time soon. Too many players to muddy the waters. Though many of us have grown weary of the many chapters in the Israeli-Lebanese conflicts over the decades, its just as difficult to put a handle on it now as it ever had been. More tit for tat. In the mean time lives are being reshuffled and terminated.
 
Both sides are correct in their reasons for protecting their borders. Yet neither respects the borders of eachother.
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Posts: 666 		  Quote Loknar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 15:49

What I can say is this.the Palestinians need to accept a new boundary for their nation. Forget ever about getting the 1948 or pre 1967 borders, it isnt going to happen (and it shouldnt). The Palestinians need a nation, a home and a responsible government (no terrorist scum). IF they cant accept this then there is no real chance for peace. Of course Israels colonies or settlements in the West Bank doesnt help.

Militarily. This isnt 1967 or 1972. This is 2006. The Israeli military is one of the best trained and one of the most technologically advanced in the world. They have hundreds of thousands of reserves (if not millions) that can be called to active duty. Their air force is capable of conducting thousands of sorties in a single day (I think it even exceeds Americas). There is no chance for nations like Syria, Jordan or Egypt to attack Israel successfully, the Israeli military is infact that far ahead of them.

Now then about the Palestinianswhose fault is it for this mess they are in? Why did they attack Israel in 1948? In 1948, they got their fair portion of the land. Israel got 60% but more than half was desert (the Negev) and there was a large Arab minority living in Israels borders. If the Palestinians accepted the land division then there would be a Palestinian nation today.

And the idea that the Jews are invadersLets call it like it is. The Arabs are also invaders. The Jews have been there for over 2000 years (though a vast majority of them left in 70AD). How do the Arabs have more of a claim to the land than the Jews?
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Originally posted by malizai_

Originally posted by pikeshot1600

 
Well, if you "wouldnt expect nothing less." I imagine the F.O. won't be interested.
 
It wasnt the FO that vetoed, it was mr Bolton. And stop trying to personalise the issue. So spare us the BS, since you r going to need to with justifications like the one given below.
 
Originally posted by pikeshot1600

 
the fact that Geo Bush can't stop Israel's actions
 
 
 
Just like a wolf can not keep its teeth from bititng.
US should learn to keep its  d*g on a leash and muzzled.
 
 

Israel can't be defeated because of England and France. Who in the Middle East would dare invade them? The cost would be too high, even if the invasion was successful. I suggest you educate yourself on the issue.

France and Britian are to blame more than anyone for Israel's power over the rest of the region.

Shall I remind you that Britian gave Israel plutonium to make atomic weapons with?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/israel/nuke.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4515586.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4789832.stm

Edited by Illuminati - 14-Jul-2006 at 17:15
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     How do you expect Palestinians to elect responsible leaders when they're living in exile? As Americans, we can't pick a responsible leader, and our lives are very stable.

     Stop expecting a group of people who live in hell to act like angels.
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