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Khashayarshah
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Topic: Who is the Greatest Military leader of the Ancient period? Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 20:47 |
The most strategic is definitly Ghengis Khan or Kublai khan, or Atilla.
As for first, and most influential, it is Cyrus and Dariush.
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Khashayarshah
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Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 20:49 |
I think its because im iranian, but i dont like alexander. He conquered
one empire when it was at its weakest point and was called the "Great".
The Persians conquered The Egyptian empire, the babylonian empire, the
medes, and the assyrians to form a HUGE empire, and when it was at a
weak spot, alexander conquered it and was a hero for conquering a
fallen empire.
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Praetor
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Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 09:16 |
Originally posted by Khashayarshah
The most strategic is definitly Ghengis Khan or Kublai khan, or Atilla.
As for first, and most influential, it is Cyrus and Dariush.
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firstly Genghis Khan and Kublai khan are from the middle ages and hence
invalid. Secondly I't doesn't mater how influential they were just how
skilled. Finally Attila the Hun's military abilities and that of the
Huns in general is highly overrated, just to sum it all up for Attila:
Attila, his Huns and many other "tribes" that formed part of his
coalition attacked a Roman empire divided in two and in a steady state
of decline for over 200 years from among many other factors Dozens of
Barbarian invasions before it. They then preceded to attack the weaker
half of this decaying empire and LOST! True they werent conquered but
Attilas Hunnic Empire didn't even outlast the Rotting corpse that was
the western Roman empire.
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Xshayathiya
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Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 10:04 |
Originally posted by Praetor
Originally posted by Khashayarshah
The most strategic is definitly Ghengis Khan or Kublai khan, or Atilla. As for first, and most influential, it is Cyrus and Dariush. |
firstly Genghis Khan and Kublai khan are from the middle ages and hence invalid. Secondly I't doesn't mater how influential they were just how skilled. Finally Attila the Hun's military abilities and that of the Huns in general is highly overrated, just to sum it all up for Attila: Attila, his Huns and many other "tribes" that formed part of his coalition attacked a Roman empire divided in two and in a steady state of decline for over 200 years from among many other factors Dozens of Barbarian invasions before it. They then preceded to attack the weaker half of this decaying empire and LOST! True they werent conquered but Attilas Hunnic Empire didn't even outlast the Rotting corpse that was the western Roman empire. |
Good Point. This is essentially what Khashayarshah is saying about Alexander.
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Praetor
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Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 10:49 |
Originally posted by Xshayathiya
Good Point. This is essentially what Khashayarshah is saying about Alexander. |
To some extent yes, there are a few key differences however as
Alexander though attacking a weakened empire, was fighting a united one
and most importantly he won.....unlike Attila (Alexander also faced far
greater odds than Attila). In Khashayarshah analysis Alexander's
achievements in his short life time are compared to the conquests of
the entire persian state (admittedly a great deal of this took place
under one man:Cyrus). Alexander's other conquests are ignored in the
analysis also. Finaly I would like to say that I voted for Hannibal not
Alexander and would be more than willing to justify it if you or anyone
else asks.
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New User
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Posted: 22-Apr-2007 at 21:48 |
Pretty much depends on what one means by greatest, ie most succesful or most talented etc etc.
I voted for Alexander cos he was talented , succesful and his actions had long term effects. Also I do not know enough about Cyrus the Great to vote for him.
I did not vote for Hannibal as if I have a great military leader for my country I would want them to win the war not just the battles. Talent means nothing in war if you don't win in the long run. Scipio spanked his bum and sent him home.
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Balain d Ibelin
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Posted: 11-May-2007 at 07:41 |
Whoa!!
hard to say, yes, but I have 4 favorites:
-Alexander the Great
-Hannibal Barca
-Julius Caesar
-Darius the Great
For Other which are not mentioned are:
-Antiochus III (Seleucid Empire)
-Augustus caesar (Roman Empire)
-Vincingetorix (Gaul)
-Hamlicar Barca (Carthage)
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Penelope
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Posted: 11-May-2007 at 09:04 |
Even if we take the subjugation of Asia away from Alexander, the simple fact that he was able to re-conquer Greece, as well as the Thracians and the Illyrians, would still put him atop many of historys greatest military leaders.
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Kamikaze 738
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Posted: 11-May-2007 at 14:22 |
Alexander the Great!!!
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olvios
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Posted: 11-May-2007 at 17:56 |
Alexander the Great of macedon greatest Greek of all and one that was the shortest general to have ever graced the field!His legs couldnt reach the floor when he sat on the persian throne and they brought him a table to do it. The persian emperor was one big fellow!
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Praetor
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Posted: 13-May-2007 at 02:06 |
Originally posted by Balian d'Ibelin
For Other which are not mentioned are:
-Antiochus III (Seleucid Empire)
-Augustus caesar (Roman Empire)
-Vincingetorix (Gaul)
-Hamlicar
Barca (Carthage)
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Augustus Caesar rarely took the field personally the majority of his
victories in the civil wars were the result of his general Agrippa's
ability, and those of his later years were won by Tiberius, Drusus and
Germanicus.
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Posted: 13-May-2007 at 05:05 |
Alexander for sheer brilliance without having the natural advantages Cyrus had.
Originally posted by Praetor
Augustus Caesar rarely took the field personally the majority of his victories in the civil wars were the result of his general Agrippa's ability, and those of his later years were won by Tiberius, Drusus and Germanicus.
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Yes, he was a politician not a warrior.
Edited by Outis - 13-May-2007 at 05:06
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Penelope
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Posted: 14-May-2007 at 02:23 |
Antiochus The Great of the Seleucid Empire, the 6th Seleucid ruler, should be on that list, becuase he "walked in the footsteps Alexander The Great left". The defeat he recieved at the hand of Pharoah Ptolemy IV of Egypt, in 217 BC, was a defeat that should have completely destroyed/ended the Seleucid Empire as a whole, but it didnt. He held the Empire together.
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Knights
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Posted: 14-May-2007 at 08:26 |
Yes, Antiochus was certainly a capable general, probably better than the likes of Dionysius (who is on the list), however, he did have his downsides. He lost a few battles largely due to impetuousness, as he got a bit carried away with his cavalry pursuits...still, he managed to pull through and win back the war despite losing battles like Raphia. In my opinion, Selecus was the greater of the two (He and Antiochus), but I am no expert on the subject and am open to objection. ![Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif) - Knights -
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 14-May-2007 at 08:56 |
For reasons already mentioned, I will go with Alexander.
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Praetor
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Posted: 14-May-2007 at 09:12 |
Originally posted by Outis
Alexander for sheer brilliance without having the natural advantages Cyrus had.
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What may I ask are Cyrus's "natural advantages"?
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Posted: 05-Jun-2007 at 04:06 |
The problem with Alexander is we don't actually know what he personally managed and what his generals achieved which he was given credit before. The sources are all from when the cult of personality was in full swing and many of the generals practically need Alexander to tell them how to walk.
Now he could have achieved everything credited but then it begs the question why he was able to choose such poor help.
Personally I'd go for Scipio, he might not be the greatest at set peice battles or being the most dynamic but when it comes to seeing the big picture and stripping a resource base then he couldn't be beaten.
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Kamikaze 738
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Posted: 05-Jun-2007 at 19:24 |
Well, he personally managed to lead the Companion Cavalry into battle
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andrew
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Posted: 05-Jun-2007 at 19:41 |
Alexander the Great and Hannibal Barca. I can see strengths in boths:
Alexander had to face overwhelming, which is an understatement, odds to defeat a land that was thought at that time unconquerable the Persian Empire. Not only did he defeat it he down right crushed it at its height. I do believe however, the Persian army was weak. The nicely clothed, sheer numbered Persians are no match for the heavily armoured well trained Greek army as was displayed in Thermompalyae. Still defeating waves of million of Persians with 20,000 men detatched from their homes in Europe fighting a war against the strongest nation in the world, Persia, was amazing to say the least.
Hanibal was a trained general and was fueled by hate for Rome. He knew hot to command his troops and was the best strategic commander of his time, moreso then Alexander. He beat Rome when it was still a young fledgling state but the Roman army was still far superior to the Carthaginian one seeing as how Carthage overly depended on their ships. He had no support and was not fueled by riches but was driven by his emotions. Taking the battle to Rome's turf at that time was unheard of but he beat them in a string of battles. The Battle of Cannae is a testament to this military mastermind.
I choose Alexander because he knew hot to exploit a victory.
As Hannibal's companion Maharbal said, "Hannibal knew how to gain a victory, but did not know how to use it."
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Praetor
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Posted: 08-Jun-2007 at 02:06 |
Originally posted by andrew
Alexander the Great and Hannibal Barca. I can see strengths in boths:
Alexander had to face overwhelming, which is an understatement, odds to
defeat a land that was thought at that time unconquerable the Persian
Empire. Not only did he defeat it he down right crushed it at its
height. I do believe however, the Persian army was weak. The nicely
clothed, sheer numbered Persians are no match for the heavily armoured
well trained Greek army as was displayed in Thermompalyae. Still
defeating waves of million of Persians with 20,000 men detatched from
their homes in Europe fighting a war against the strongest nation in
the world, Persia, was amazing to say the least. |
Firstly Persia was not at its height when conquered by Alexander but
had been in decline for some time. Secondly Alexander had approximately
50,000 men at Guagamela not 20,000 And Its believed that the Persians
had 200,000 to 250,000 men not one million men at this battle also
(this was the battle where Alexander faced the largest Persian force in
his career). However Those are great odds in thier own right though you
have (I assume unknowingly) vastly exagerated them.
Originally posted by andrew
I choose Alexander because he knew hot to exploit a victory.
As Hannibal's companion Maharbal said, "Hannibal knew how to gain a victory, but did not know how to use it."
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Sigh....once again I hear this misconception supported by this dubius
qoute, I feel too lazy to explain this again so I will
refer you to a thread that discusses this misconception:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18816&PN=1
Regards, Praetor.
Edited by Praetor - 08-Jun-2007 at 02:07
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