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Topic ClosedNew Middle East Borders !
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    Posted: 03-Sep-2006 at 10:02
LOLIts clear Peters hasn't actually visited the majority of areas on the map.
 
Has he ever been to Tabriz? how on Earth did he come up with the conclusion they'd accept being part of Kurdistan, last time I visited there wasn't even a substantial minority of Kurds in the city its mostly Azeri Turk and alot feel part of Iran.
 
Forget that, Ormiyeh is also part of Kurdistan, how? it doesn't have a Kurdish majority.
 
Why is there no Assyrian state? don't they also deserve one in Iraq and Syria.
 
How about the Talysh as Zagros pointed out.
 
How does the most fractious country in the region Georgia manage to stay united.
 
How does Kurdistan manage to extend to the Black SeaConfused How does it pour into South SanliUrfa its mostly Arab with some Suryani and Turkmen tribes, or GaziAntep, ELAZIG (a hot-spot of Turkish Nationalism), Erzerum, Erzincan, Igdir, KahramanMaras, Osmaniye, Malatya...... This guy is cookoo, they would have to somehow kill 70-80% of the population in those regions as they don't have Kurdish majorities especially the cities.
 
Now why doesn't Syria-Jordan-Lebanon-Palestine unite and become SHAM like they used to be, there not really too different to each other.
 
Also Israel is weakened and shrinks this goes totally against U.S Foreign policy why weaken your ally of in other words the 52nd state.
 
And Kashmir? does this guy want a blood bath.
 
Does he think Pakistan will just accept these borders with its Nukes by its side.
 
This map is ridiculously ignorant.
 
Then there would be the aftermath of the map, counter wars, non-stop wars, wars for hundreds of years the area raized to rouble.
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Posts: 8792 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2006 at 11:35
Orumieh is majority Kurdish.

Edited by Zagros - 03-Sep-2006 at 11:35
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Posts: 2800 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2006 at 12:49
Orumiyeh city is not majority Kurdish, I was there last year passing through on the way to Tabriz.    
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Posts: 8792 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2006 at 14:33

You were on your way to Tabriz? Where did your journey start?

Actually the populations of Azari and Kurdish are roughly the same.  The population prior to the 1914 Turkish Genocides, the Assyrians were majority.
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Posts: 1914 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 06:33
Another American ignorant-intellectual crap :)
 
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Posts: 1914 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 06:34
Originally posted by Zagros

You were on your way to Tabriz? Where did your journey start?

Actually the populations of Azari and Kurdish are roughly the same.  The population prior to the 1914 Turkish Genocides, the Assyrians were majority.
 
Oh,yes...Turks were in Tabriz in 1914 for sure!!!
 
Ottoman troops hadn't entered Iran till late 1915..So, please...Don't change the subject with another untrue claim.


Edited by Kapikulu - 04-Sep-2006 at 06:41
We gave up your happiness
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we couldn't be consoled;

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Posts: 2800 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 06:38
Turkish Genocides? you yourself state there are Kurds in the region, did the Kurdish gangs just close their eyes and sit back hmm, when speaking to Assyrians its weird that they are always bitter against Kurds and their gangs in WW1 more than Turks or Ottomans who were just the rulers at that time. Its funny how some Kurds like to jump on the band-wagon of pointing fingers withouth realising their actually pointing fingers at themselves. Do you think Diyarbakir was majority Kurdish? or many areas of Northern Iraq? how do you think this happened, will you now give land back to the Assyrians as they want I wonder.

Ormiyeh is an interesting place, even more interesting is around Tabriz. I asked the people if they'd prefer seperating, being a federal area of staying part of Iran. There were those who said why seperate, in a few years we'll fully control Iran and be the majority then we can get all the cultural rights and determine a different foreign policy.

    

Edited by Bulldog - 04-Sep-2006 at 06:42
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Posts: 1775 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 07:10
Indeed a very good possibility. Looking at the way events are unfolding in ME, it wont be long before this map resembles the reality. A good predictive exercise indeed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 09:16

Errrrr how? And India with its 17 insurgencies will follow suit?

This is the rantings of a guy with too much time on his hands.
 
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Posts: 2200 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 15:57
Originally posted by kapikulu

Originally posted by Zagros

You were on your way to Tabriz? Where did your journey start?

Actually the populations of Azari and Kurdish are roughly the same.  The population prior to the 1914 Turkish Genocides, the Assyrians were majority.
 
Oh,yes...Turks were in Tabriz in 1914 for sure!!!
 
Ottoman troops hadn't entered Iran till late 1915..So, please...Don't change the subject with another untrue claim.


people who fled Anatolia because of the Genocide...thus changing the population demographic of Tabriz. There had been a large Armenian community in Tabriz before WWI, so its no wonder it must have been one of the more popular destinations for those fleesing the massacres.

Also, Turks seize Tabriz in Jenuary 7, 1915...since you dont take a city in a day there must have been action in Tabriz for weeks prior to January 7... which is only seven days away from 1914. Zagros was pretty close to the date wasnt he?
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Posts: 8792 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 17:35
Ottomans occupied NW IRan in WW1 and extended their killings of Christians to that region.  There are memories of local Azaries and Kurds hiding Assyrians from Turkish soldiers in the rural populations.
 
Thousands upon thousands were massacred on Iranian land.
 
---
 
I am interested, where did your journey start?  If you were passing through Orumieh on your way to Tabriz, then you started farther south I presume.  You're in Zagros country :D.


Edited by Zagros - 04-Sep-2006 at 17:37
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Posts: 8792 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 17:51
Originally posted by Bulldog

Turkish Genocides? you yourself state there are Kurds in the region, did the Kurdish gangs just close their eyes and sit back hmm, when speaking to Assyrians its weird that they are always bitter against Kurds and their gangs in WW1 more than Turks or Ottomans who were just the rulers at that time. Its funny how some Kurds like to jump on the band-wagon of pointing fingers withouth realising their actually pointing fingers at themselves. Do you think Diyarbakir was majority Kurdish? or many areas of Northern Iraq? how do you think this happened, will you now give land back to the Assyrians as they want I wonder. 

    
 
The Kurdish gangs you speak of operated in Anatolia, not Iran - Kurds in Iran had nothing to do with them.
 
In a few years they will control Iran you say?  Iran is not a country ruled by ethnicities, the sooner ignoramuses such as yourself realise this, the better your assessments will be.  Iran has been multicultural since its inception 2800 years ago, we do not care for your ethnic hatred spreading.
 
All I have to do is go through Orkut and through my friends list, through the friends of my friends etc to see how many Iranian names end with Tork suffixes and whom openly glorify ancient and modern Iranian culture in their profiles while copletely neglecting their Tork heritage.  This is assimilation 2000 years of Turkish and Azarbaijani repression could never achieve.
 
What Azari rights do you speak of?  They have more rights than any other minority in any other nation in the middle east, including the ultra repressive Turkey and Rep of Azarbaijan.  Iran broadcasts channels in Azari, one for educational purposes and another as propaganda into Ex Soviet Azarbaijan.  Iran has many immigrants from north of the Arash river who have actually migrated for economic reasons.
 
What rights do you speak of? The right to celebrate what they want? they have it, the right to speak Azari? They have it.  The right to reach the highest echelons of power in Iran?  They enjoy it.  The right to learn Azari in schools?  well nothing is stopping them opening Azari only private schools...  The national language is persian, that is the only non-Azari thing they need to get by.
 
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Posts: 2200 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 21:24
Whats your case bulldog?

The country is called Iran, not Persia. Persians are Iranians, so are Azeries and Kurds that live there.

Would you have it be something like Turkey for Turks, so you could whine how un-democratic it is?

by the way...Turkey for Turks is very righteous


Edited by mamikon - 04-Sep-2006 at 23:00
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Posts: 1013 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 03:03
"Ormiyeh is an interesting place, even more interesting is around Tabriz. I asked the people if they'd prefer seperating, being a federal area of staying part of Iran. There were those who said why seperate, in a few years we'll fully control Iran and be the majority then we can get all the cultural rights and determine a different foreign policy."
 
Hehe, it's always funny when you say you asked people. You really sure that the people will tell you the truth?
 
If I lived there I wouldn't be stupid enough to brag about how we, Kurds, will separate from Iran or Turkey, why? Because what if you go and tell the police about this? I would be put in jail.
 
So, please, don't put all your energy and focus on how people answer you, because if they have nationalistic feelings or hatred against Iranian regime, they'll not say it to an foregin guy who stops by.
 
But of course there are stupid people...
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
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Posts: 1013 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 03:07
"Do you think Diyarbakir was majority Kurdish? or many areas of Northern Iraq? how do you think this happened, will you now give land back to the Assyrians as they want I wonder."
 
What a ignorant claim. So what should we do? Drop dead? Evacuate and give the land to Turks?
 
It's like saying "Do you think Instanbul was Turkish for 1500 years ago?!
 
Hell no, they killed all the christians and took the land, now it's theirs.
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
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Posts: 1775 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 03:40
Originally posted by Sparten

Errrrr how? And India with its 17 insurgencies will follow suit?

This is the rantings of a guy with too much time on his hands.
 


Too much time WITH  too much knowledge & foresight.

And obiviously this person was knowledgeble enough to do  research on the so called 17  insurgencies in India. He is an intelligent person, not one with too little time & lesser knowledge.

I too differ with him in onw case. The map of kashmir is shown wrong. While the Chinese occupied kashmir would continue to remain with china, POK would sertainly see a realignment of power.

I know it will set adrenalin flowing, but in a  major realignment of power, you simply cant discount the economic power of India. for e.g. in the cold war Russia was more or less threatening US, but the reality ultimately came out. US was US, is still US while USSR has disappeared
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Posts: 1027 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 05:45
Could I have a list of these 17 insurgencies?
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Posts: 1775 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 06:21
Forget about it Anuj, he wont have that list.
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Posts: 1027 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 07:22
I only know of a few,

the Nagaland one, the Assamese, the one in Kashmir, the one with the Moaists.
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Posts: 1775 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 07:33
Maoists is not an insurgency, its a law & order problem. They have never asked for an independent nation or a state, they are communists who were opposed to capitalism initially & are opposed to development now (as development would bring prosparity, which would erode their poor vs rich fight). the demise of communism all over the world is a testimony of the fact it will gradually die a slow death.
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