Who were Scythians?

From anthropological cranial analysis at Scythian grave sites, they are definitely of Caucasoid ethnicity, specifically, Aryan. The Eurasian steppe was the ancestral homeland of the proto-Indo-European language and people.




Dark Lord.

Originally posted by prsn41ife Originally posted by oghuzkb Now a quastion for you,you seem quite sure that Scythians are Iranians,of course I wont deny the possibilities.But how can you so sure to say they are iranians without enough facts,did not you see what we are discussing here is far before Jesus born, we even dont have any inscriptions from themselves about their identity yet.So I will still leave my quastions until got a firm evidence,at least this is my own right .You are from so called" freedom country" are not you? so dont treat me as you are a dictator. im not a historian nor an archeaologist, and neither are you. you are asking us to show you scythian writing, or some piece of physical evidence which is impossible because we dont have access to these and nor do we know where to get them from. i know they are iranian for one simple fact: the fact is that all historians agree they are historians (atleast most). all reputable encyclopaedia's say they are iranic, every source i have ever read say they are iranic. since i am not a historian myself, i have to rely on these people, and since you are also not a historian, you also have to rely on these people. let me ask you this, show me evidence that prooves scythians are not iranic.... this can go both ways, we just have to accept what historians write because they are the experts. if historians say that scythians are not iranic then who am i to argue with them.  most say that they are iranic, and that is good enough for me.

good thing,you are admitting that we dont have scythian writing and physical evidence,see ,this is exactly my basis why there is an uncertainty.

I checked some encyclopeadia and historical papers,and sure there are lot of people claiming that their language is eastern Iranian.Their idea depends on greek sources as below:

Some scholars ascribe certain "Runic" inscriptions found in Eastern Europe and Central Asia to the Scythians, but apart from that there are no extant texts in Scythian; however, the personal names found in the contemporary Greek literary and epigraphic texts suggest that the language of the Scythians and the Sarmatians (who spoke a dialect of Scythian according to Herodotus, Hist. 4.117) has strong similarities to well-attested Eastern Iranian dialects such as Sogdian and Modern Ossetic.

But I also find something different from Wikipedia as below,look,these are also facts: 

Traditions of the Turkic Kazakhs and Yakuts (who call themselves "Sakha"); the Marathas of India; the Picts; the Gaels; the Hungarians; Serbs and Croats; also include mention of Scythian origins, among others.

It cannot be said with certainty that all of those variously referred to as Scythians or Saka spoke Iranian languages, or that they were genetically related to the stock of Iranian's original speakers. They may have only had an Iranian speaking elite, and the mother tongues of the peoples they dominated might have been Proto-Germanic, Proto-Slavic, Indo-Aryan, and/or even Tocharian (this could explain the presence of Tocharian in the east). See Non-Indo-European roots of Germanic languages and Mathematical approaches to comparative linguistics.

• FOX, Robin Lane, 1973. Alexander the Great. ISBN 0-14-008878-4.

 

Scythian elite were buried in kurgans, high barrows heaped over chamber-tombs of larch-wood �� a deciduous conifer that may have had special significance as a tree of life-renewal, for it stands bare in winter. Burials at Pazyryk in the Altai Mountains have included some spectacularly preserved Scythians of the "Pazyryk culture" �� including the "Ice Maiden" of the 5th century BC.

 

Saka is the usual Persian term, while Scythian is a Greek term.  Their language is poorly known, but seems to have originally been a member of the Iranian family (though some question whether this applied to all stratas of their society, or only the ruling class at various times).

Among others, modern Kazakhs (especially the branch known as "Saks") claim descent from the Sakas. The Sakha people of Siberia (see Yakuts) also claim descent from a remnant of the earlier Saka people. Additionally, although the evidence is dated and the technology utilized still in its infancy, DNA analysis conducted at the Novosibirsk Institute of Cytology and Genetics has found Kazakhs and Altai people to be the nearest relatives among competing Mongol-Turkic clans of a Scythian from the Pazyryk burial in Siberia.

Archeological evidence and histographies shows a worldview of Sakas, similar to that of ancient German and Scandinavian traditions and closely related to that of present-day Kazakhs and Mongols. It is theorized that they believed Man was a part of the Universe, Cosmos, Heaven, Sun, mountains, river, in total nature, and shows close affinities with Shamanism and Tengriism which are still practiced today, from Kazakhstan to Siberia which conceive of God as related to Cosmic laws and forces. However, modern Kazakhs are Muslim, most modern Mongols are Buddhists, and Siberian shamanism is not known to be directly connected to Indo-European religion.

Here I would like to add something.Even though modern Khazak,Uighurs are muslim,but there are still lot shamanism practice among them.

Rudenko initially assigned the neutral label Pazyryk culture for these nomadic pasturalists of horses and dated them to the 5th century BC. The Pazyryk culture has since been connected with the Scythians, one of the earliest known Altaic people described by the ancient Greeks, whose very similar tombs are found across the steppes. It has been suggested that Pazyryk was a homeland for these tribes before they migrated west. There is also the possibility that the current inhabitants of the Altai region are descendants of the Pazyryk culture, a continuity that would accord with current ethnic politics: DNA is now being used to study the Pazyryk mummies

 

Bottom line is, Turkish people may have been originated Scythians(Sakas).This is a one possibilty of course. Cause there are lots scythians burials in Altay region,and its well known fact that Turks originated from Altay ,depending on folklore,legends,inscriptions and chinese sources.Modern uighur historians also claiming this theory.

Edited by oghuzkb

Aryan is the proper racial classification - subdivided into Mediterranean, Alpine and Nordic.




Dark Lord.

According to credible historians not inhibited by "political correctness".




Dark Lord.

Originally posted by oghuzkb To date, no widely accepted explanation exists for the origin of the Scythians, nor how they migrated to the Caucasus and Ukraine; but many scholars conjecture that they migrated westward from Central Asia between 800 BC and 600 BC------  From wikipedia See,here it said they moved to westward from central asia,not to south!

my friend, you are confusing yourself even more.

scythians never came down into the middle east. persians, medes, parthians, etc... and other iranic tribes did, but not scythians. scythians, along with ossetians, and some other iranic tribes went to russia and eastern europe.

you are confusing scythians with the other iranic tribes that migrated south.

i suggest you calm down, relax, think slowly, because you are really confused right now.

Originally posted by prsn41ife Originally posted by oghuzkb To date, no widely accepted explanation exists for the origin of the Scythians, nor how they migrated to the Caucasus and Ukraine; but many scholars conjecture that they migrated westward from Central Asia between 800 BC and 600 BC------  From wikipedia See,here it said they moved to westward from central asia,not to south! my friend, you are confusing yourself even more. scythians never came down into the middle east.

Yes they did.

Originally posted by prsn41ife this says that they were iranic. i dont know why you posted it. where did turks originate from? who were their ancestors, were they origionally "turkic"? see, there is always the possibility of something, there is also the possibility that dragons existed, but it hasnt been proven so far has it? again, you are thinking that turks starting everything.

Read carefully please again, if you still have same idea after wards ,then I would say your mind totally occupied with Iranian stuff. I have read it very clearly, langugae of saka seems iranian. Here "it seems " means it is probabley like,not mean it is! you are saying that they are iranian,and your evidence is only language,but see,this evidece is also uncertain.

So,according to your idea ,Turks originated from somewhere middle of the nowhere,right? I think you went too far,this is kinda racist idea.

I am not saying turkish start everything,read carefully again please,I am saying scythians started something,but not all!!!

Originally posted by oghuzkb Read carefully please again, if you still have same idea after wards ,then I would say your mind totally occupied with Iranian stuff. I have read it very clearly, langugae of saka seems iranian. Here "it seems " means it is probabley like,not mean it is! you are saying that they are iranian,and your evidence is only language,but see,this evidece is also uncertain.

well if you apply that logic to everything, then what kind of a world is this?

is there even a world? just because it seems there is a world does it really exist?

do humans really exist? are turks really chinese? are chinese reall german?

Originally posted by oghuzkb So,according to your idea ,Turks originated from somewhere middle of the nowhere,right? I think you went too far,this is kinda racist idea. I am not saying turkish start everything,read carefully again please,I am saying scythians started something,but not all!!!

wow, you dont understand sarcasm or reverse psychology.

and you obviously dont know what racism means. wow, who am i debating with?

oghuzkb, i see you seem to be interested in Scythians, can you post a scythian crone and a Sakha/yakut one?

I had seen a "similarity" between them, dont ask me where i saw that

Another base, according to folklore and historical documents,Sakas king Alip er tunga fought with persians around Amu river and  present Turkmenistan.He died one of the war and his sister(some says his niece) named Tumaris continued to fight and also died in a battle.Nowadays these two name represent braverty in turkish.you will find the names Alpatta( abbrevated form of Alip ertunga) and Tumaris very common among uighur turkis. This is another evidence additional to other facts I have posted prior pages.