Languages of your country

Originally posted by Ellin tell me RealMakedonskian If you speak the language of Alexandarski lol why can't you guys pronounce the name of the capital city of Macedonia, Thessaloniki??? Why can't you even pronounce the sound "th" which is prevalent in all Macedonian writings from antiquity to the present? Why can all Greek speakers read all ancient Macedonian coins, inscriptions and writings and no Makedonski can do so, unless they are well versed in Greek, of course?

Aleksandar, Filip, Bukefal, Solun - they all sound macedonian.
Un-arguably, the ancient Macedonians are today's Macedonians, living in the Republic of Macedonia.
cheers

Originally posted by Patrinos Anton let's put it in a different base. The Fyromians say that the ancient Macedonians weren't Greeks but they were hellenised. OK, so far? So the descedants of the "hellenised" macedonians logically are the the today Greek Macedonians(who as all Greeks speak the evolution of the Greek Koine that macedonians themselves introduced to the whole word),don't you find it more logical?? This Fyrom issue is based in a state's propaganda on the slavonic people of Fyrom (with out clear ethnic identity) that I don't think that the word history has ever experienced again.It's a madness.

Could you please stop posting info irrelevant to this topic???

Originally posted by RealMacedonian Aleksandar, Filip, Bukefal, Solun - they all sound macedonian.

... come back, you haven't told us what they mean though!

Originally posted by EGETURK Anyway,there are more T�rk in greece than rums of T�rkiye...My t�rkish greek freind said me that a lot  of greeks in T�rkiye are very old,T�rkiye's greek are not more than 1500...

You'd be surprised!!

Some writers estimate that there are 300,000 people of Pontic Greek descent (�mer Asan 1996) in Turkey (in Trabzon, entirely Muslim and a majority (225,000 - 250,000) speaking Turkish today).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontic_Christians

Originally posted by Arber Z It is their right to call themselves whatever they want, as far as they are aware that this is no reason for territorial claims.

Every country has the right to chose its own name as long as it doesn't infringe on another country's history!! sound fair enough??
What do 6th century AD Slavic immigrants have in connection with Alexander and ancient Macedonia anyway??
Aren't they inventive or creative enough to think of a name of their own to reflect their own 'ethnicity', and why is it that they didn't have a Macedonian-complex prior to the 20th century??  Totally unheard of.  What got into them all of a sudden? hehe
Just because they reside on a 'portion' of Macedonian turf, doesn't make them rightful heirs. It takes more than place of birth to be entitled to the Macedonian heritage, much much more.

Originally posted by RealTryHardMacedonian Macedonia is the language Alexander used and today's corresponding language is the Macedonian, spoken by the citizens of Republic of Macedonia.

Linguistic science has at its disposal a very limited quantity of Macedonian words and the reason why there is "a limited quantity of Macedonian words" is because the "Macedonian dialect" had "limited" differences from the Greek language.
How could it be possible for a separate ancient Macedonian "language" to have disappeared after what Alexander had achieved??

Plus, why did the Slav-Macedonian language first appear after 2 August 1944?


In 2001 'Radko' issued in Skopje the original version of the folk song collection 'Bulgarian Folk Songs' by the Miladinov Brothers, as well as the unedited memoirs of the Greek bishop of Kastoria, in which he talked about the Greek-Bulgarian church struggle at the beginning of the 20th century. Being the first publications to question the official Macedonian position on its history, the books triggered a reaction of shock and disbelief in Macedonian public opinion. The scandal, which followed the publications, resulted in the sacking of the Macedonian Deputy Minister of Culture.

The Miladinov Brothers (Братя Миладинови), Dimitar Miladinov (1810-1862) and Konstantin Miladinov (1830-1862), were Bulgarian poets and folklorists, authors of the most important collection of Bulgarian folk songs in the 19th century, Bulgarian Folk Songs (1861). The collection was written in the vernacular of Struga (present-day Republic of Macedonia) and includes a total of 665 songs and 23,559 verses.

Although the Miladinov Brothers always called the language in which they wrote Bulgarian, since the establishment of the YRM they have been regarded by Macedonian linguists as Slav Macedonian awakeners fighting for the development of the Macedonian language. Bulgarian Folk Songs has been re-issued in the Republic under an edited name, Collection, the references to Macedonia in the foreword as of to "lower Moesia" and "Western Bulgaria" have been erased and other references to Bulgaria and Bulgarian language have been edited and replaced with Macedonia and Macedonian language.

In the 1980s, the original edition of the book was subjected to systematic acts of vandalism in Western libraries, often carried by Yugoslav expatriates and usually resulting in the tearing of the front cover. For this reason, the book may be borrowed only as a photocopy nowadays.

Text of the front cover

"Bulgarian Folk Songs collected by the Miladinov Brothers Dimitar and Konstantin and published by Konstantin in Zagreb at the printing house of A. Jakic, 1861"


and also

What's funny is that Goce Delcev who is mentioned in their national anthem is BULGARIAN! Like all of them are.

"Goce Delcev (Гоце Делчев, also transliterated Gotze Delchev and Gotse Delchev; 1872-1903) was a Bulgarian revolutionary"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goce_Delchev

Some of the anthem.
Now again the flag flies
(that) of the Krushevo Republic
Goce Delchev, Pitu Guli
Dame Gruev, Sandanski!
Goce Delchev, Pitu Guli
Dame Gruev, Sandanski!


Even Gruev was BULGARIAN!
Just like The Miladinov Brothers they all become Macedonian all of a sudden!

Delchev became a teacher in Bulgarian in Stip in 1894, where he met Dame Gruev, leader of the local committee of IMARO. As a result of the close friendship between the two, Delchev joined the organization in 1895 only to become it's leader not long after.

and the organisation they belonged to was, you guessed it, Bulgarian!
http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/I/Interna...organization.htm

Why did the greatest Slav-Macedonian national hero, Samuel, title himself as "Tsar of Bulgars" if he wasn't a Bulgarian?

Even your own leaders admit their true roots.

President Gligorov at an interview in the Toronto Star on March 15, 1992 said: "We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians. That's who we are! We have no connection to Alexander the Great and his Macedonia.Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century (AD)." The ancient Macedonians no longer exist, they had disappeared from history long time ago.

Your Ambassador in Washington, Mrs. Ljubica Acevshka, in her speech on the present situation in the Balkans: "We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great. We are Slavs and we speak a Slav language. Greece is FYROM's second largest trading partner, and its number one
investor".

In an interview with the Ottawa Citizen, Gyordan Veselinov, FYROM's
Ambassador to Canada: "We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian."

He also commented "there is some confusion about the identity of the
people of this country".

The testimony of the American Henry Morgenthau serving in Greece between 1925 and 1926 as President of the Committee on Refugees for the Community of Nations (as written in his book):
"I was Sent to Athens" and "When the Turks and the Bulgarians left, Macedonia remained a purely Greek region" Then, as now, on the northern borders of Macedonia there were inhabitants speaking a local Slavic dialect alongside the Greek language. These people were, and still are, Greeks.

Testimony of perhaps the greatest Macedonian and indeed Greek,
Alexander the Great, King of Macedonia and Captain-General of all
Greece.
"Your ancestors came to Macedonia and the rest of Hellas and
did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury. I have been
appointed leader of the Greeks, and wanting to punish the Persians I
have come to Asia, which I took from you."Arrianos II (Anabasis) 14,
4 Historian, 95-175AD
"There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service, but how different is their cause from ours?! They will be fighting for pay and not much of it at that; we on the contrary shall fight for Greece, and our hearts will be in it."  Arrian.
The Campaigns of Alexander.Alexander talking to the troops before the battle.  Book2-7Penguin Classics.Page 112.Translation by Aubrey De Seliucourt.

The Laz are not Greeks, they're Mengrelians (a Western Georgian tribe) but you are right, the Pontians are huddled together with the Laz. 

there is 80-100 000 laz in T�rkiye,they are not greek...You talk about Trabzon,but Trabzon is most nationalist city in T�rkiye no doubt...İ can not understand how can you believe to Wikipedia's infos...Everybody can wirte there what they want...Look,an apparition ffrom Trabzonspor-APOEL

Originally posted by Anton Every country has the right to chose its own name as long as it doesn't infringe on another country's history!! sound fair enough??What do 6th century AD Slavic immigrants have in connection with Alexander and ancient Macedonia anyway??Aren't they inventive or creative enough to think of a name of their own to reflect their own 'ethnicity', and why is it that they didn't have a Macedonian-complex prior to the 20th century??� Totally unheard of.� What got into them all of a sudden? heheJust because they reside on a 'portion' of Macedonian turf, doesn't make them rightful heirs. It takes more than place of birth to be entitled to the Macedonian heritage, much much more. Ellinas, Slavs did not�land on desert. Slavicizing portion of hipothetically greek speaking Macedonians they are�already their rightfull heirs. And also I would like to ask you about your pathetic statement. If for example I, personally,�pretend on to be Macedonian herritant what should I do? [IMG]height=17 alt=Wink src="smileys/smiley2.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>

what you found pathetic of the Hellin post? i ve read it all it seems fine to me. I am bored reading insulting posts from you guys everytime you are in position arguing with prooves. Whatever you don't like you say insulting things. Scopja have regional claims from Greece,not officially but we all now, Turkey have regional claims from greece, Albania have regional claims from Greece. Only Greece which have all the las by her side doesn't make any claims.
This is offtopic. Now if you can somehow proove that the current Scopjanic slavic langage is any how related to greek (Macedonian) please show them to us. TEACH US. OR else i am waing to see your apologies.
    

firstly i never inslult none especially Bulgaria. What insulting i wrote for Bulgaria?
You characterised the Hellins post as a pathetic. It looks like insulting to me. I am asking what was the insulting and pathetic thing he wrote. Thats all

Originally posted by perikles Originally posted by Anton Every country has the right to chose its own name as long as it doesn't infringe on another country's history!! sound fair enough??What do 6th century AD Slavic immigrants have in connection with Alexander and ancient Macedonia anyway??Aren't they inventive or creative enough to think of a name of their own to reflect their own 'ethnicity', and why is it that they didn't have a Macedonian-complex prior to the 20th century??  Totally unheard of.  What got into them all of a sudden? heheJust because they reside on a 'portion' of Macedonian turf, doesn't make them rightful heirs. It takes more than place of birth to be entitled to the Macedonian heritage, much much more. Ellinas, Slavs did not land on desert. Slavicizing portion of hipothetically greek speaking Macedonians they are already their rightfull heirs. And also I would like to ask you about your pathetic statement. If for example I, personally, pretend on to be Macedonian herritant what should I do? [IMG]height=17 alt=Wink src="smileys/smiley2.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle> what you found pathetic of the Hellin post? i ve read it all it seems fine to me. I am bored reading insulting posts from you guys everytime you are in position arguing with prooves. Whatever you don't like you say insulting things. Scopja have regional claims from Greece,not officially but we all now, Turkey have regional claims from greece, Albania have regional claims from Greece. Only Greece which have all the las by her side doesn't make any claims. This is offtopic. Now if you can somehow proove that the current Scopjanic slavic langage is any how related to greek (Macedonian) please show them to us. TEACH US. OR else i am waing to see your apologies.