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    Posted: 04-Jul-2007 at 08:18
Originally posted by Afghanan

Originally posted by Traveller

 
I think you are being a bit harsh Afghanan.How could anyone annex land on an internet forum.
 
 
 
You misunderstood me.   Disillusioned Pakistanis on this forum who make silly remarks of annexation on a forum about Pakistani identity show to everyone they are desperate for a true identity. 
 
Especially when that claim is pre-Islamic.  If that's the case they should first reconvert to Hinduism and then we'll discuss it.
 
 
 
In that case Afghanistan population was also Hindu/Budhist in pre-islamis era and it was also part of India.
 
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2007 at 09:11
this thread is starting to walk a dangerous and shortened path.

Edited by Leonidas - 04-Jul-2007 at 09:12
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I like long discussions.Please don't close the thread.
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Originally posted by Nitinsinh

What you exhibit is anti-Indian attitude, rather than a healthy argument on history.  For all the difficulties/ills you face in this world, you hold Indians responsible for.


This is a thread about Pakistani Identity. I have demonstrated that both Afghans and Bharatis like yourself have a political agenda which involved erasing as well as claiming for themselves, Pakistani history. Since this is a history forum, your tainted "opinion" on pakistani history obviously has religious as well as political motivations. If I stuck my nose in a thread about Indian identity and tried to claim something as being paki when it was not, well I would not be contributing in a positive manner.

So, that is why your contribution is not appreciated for reasons I explained many times.
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Posts: 928 		  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2007 at 09:29
Originally posted by Shekhawat

Nitin Sinh,
 
The fellow above you is making mockery of himself.
He do not know India have more Muslims than Pakistan.
 
Regards,


I have no clue what you are talking about and neither am I in the least bit interested nor concerned who has more muslims. India and Bangladesh both have more muslims than pakistan and it is completely irrelevent as is your post in this thread.

This thread is about the history and identity of pakistan.  If Afghanis and Bharatis like you don't have anything relevent to say then just stay out instead of typing nonsense that is off topic. In my last couple of posts I have shown exactly why Afghans and Bharatis are constantly in pain merely due to the fact that pakistan exists which obviously motivates both of you to litter this thread with malicious disinformation. So just stay out, go to a politics forum and whine about pakistan or something, this is not your playground for flaming.
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Posts: 28 		  Quote Shekhawat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2007 at 09:48
Originally posted by maqsad

Originally posted by Shekhawat

Nitin Sinh,
 
The fellow above you is making mockery of himself.
He do not know India have more Muslims than Pakistan.
 
Regards,


I have no clue what you are talking about and neither am I in the least bit interested nor concerned who has more muslims. India and Bangladesh both have more muslims than pakistan and it is completely irrelevent as is your post in this thread.

This thread is about the history and identity of pakistan.  If Afghanis and Bharatis like you don't have anything relevent to say then just stay out instead of typing nonsense that is off topic. In my last couple of posts I have shown exactly why Afghans and Bharatis are constantly in pain merely due to the fact that pakistan exists which obviously motivates both of you to litter this thread with malicious disinformation. So just stay out, go to a politics forum and whine about pakistan or something, this is not your playground for flaming.
 
Dear maqsad,
 
Brother , be clear there is no any hidden/political/communal agenda atleast from Bharati as you said (correct term is BHARATIYA ) .
 
Radical Angry  leaders of both the nations (India & Pakistan) are enough capable to nurture these agendas. So i think we commoners must not venture in this hate relationship. Also i have clarity on this area to not to spoil this history forum with Nationalistic/communal/political approach to much extent.
 
I had gone through your previous posts on this forum and am well impressed by your contribution.
 
One more thing my favourite singer is also from Pak. i;e Ghulam Ali Sahab.
 
Let's concentrate on the main Topic 'Pakistani Identity'
 
Regards
 


Edited by Shekhawat - 04-Jul-2007 at 09:50
Jo Dridh Rakhe Dharam Ko, Tinhi Rakhe Kartar
- महाराणा प्रताप

Watch This-:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYtKBLbFmXs
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2007 at 10:42
Originally posted by maqsad

Originally posted by Nitinsinh

What you exhibit is anti-Indian attitude, rather than a healthy argument on history.  For all the difficulties/ills you face in this world, you hold Indians responsible for.


This is a thread about Pakistani Identity. I have demonstrated that both Afghans and Bharatis like yourself have a political agenda which involved erasing as well as claiming for themselves, Pakistani history. Since this is a history forum, your tainted "opinion" on pakistani history obviously has religious as well as political motivations. If I stuck my nose in a thread about Indian identity and tried to claim something as being paki when it was not, well I would not be contributing in a positive manner.

So, that is why your contribution is not appreciated for reasons I explained many times.
 
 
M-
 
Wouldn't this adversity lend itself to, and become part of, the Pakistani Identity?
 
 
Good Morning Dinesh.
 
 
 


Edited by red clay - 04-Jul-2007 at 10:45
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
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Posts: 64 		  Quote Traveller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2007 at 01:53
I found a nice link.
 
 
 
Please vote in the poll.
 
Nice to see Pakistani economy developing.I think Pakistan has tremendous natural resources and can hopefully become a developed nation within two generations.
 
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Posts: 1988 		  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2007 at 10:13
Originally posted by Traveller

Originally posted by TheDiplomat

what I mean to suggest is that Afghan and Pakistani friends should take The Prophet as their guide, not Napoleon.
 
...and what if there is a dispute between a muslim and a non-muslim or two non-muslims.Ermm
 
 
The same goes... Do NOT wage  war unless you are directly attacked. Use every channel of communication to prevent the war through diplomatic means
ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

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Posts: 0 		  Quote Nitinsinh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2007 at 04:22
Originally posted by maqsad

Originally posted by Nitinsinh

What you exhibit is anti-Indian attitude, rather than a healthy argument on history.  For all the difficulties/ills you face in this world, you hold Indians responsible for.


This is a thread about Pakistani Identity. I have demonstrated that both Afghans and Bharatis like yourself have a political agenda which involved erasing as well as claiming for themselves, Pakistani history. Since this is a history forum, your tainted "opinion" on pakistani history obviously has religious as well as political motivations. If I stuck my nose in a thread about Indian identity and tried to claim something as being paki when it was not, well I would not be contributing in a positive manner.

So, that is why your contribution is not appreciated for reasons I explained many times.
 
Dear Maqsad,
 
I am very well aware of the topic of the thread. And, I stand firmly on my comments in response to someone talking irrelevent and out of context to blame Indians for his/her country's ills.
 
1. Reg. Pak identity, this is also a part of the identity that a Pakistani finds it difficult to talk to their neighbours/brethern on equal terms. India being  non-Islamic country and Afghanistan despite being a Muslim country and Muhajirs being Pakistani for 50 years now.
 
2. Political history cannot be ovelooked while discussing a country's Identity in present times. There are many other factors that shape/ influence ones identity.
 
3. But from your discussions, I understand your intentions to claim the Vedas, the IVC and all those great things which occured thousands of years ago in the physical boundaries of today's Pakistan, which your forefathers destroyed/ abandoned them in exchange of life and luxury with Islamic fundamentalists threats.
 
4. Hindus/ Indians are the rightful successor of the history since they fell slained and protected the rich heritage aginst 800 years of barbaric torture and wide-spread masscre and destruction.
 
History is buried not in the ruins but lives in the hearts of the the people who feel proud about.
 
5. Pakistans identity is full of oposites displaying fragmented pyche.
 
You think you are the chief patrons of Islamic world, but your show inferiority to Arabs and the Americans.
 
You hate Indians being non-Muslim, but cannot respect Muhajirs or Afghans though they are Muslim.
 
You claim to be most developed nation among muslim world, but are the major sponsor of fundamentalist/ terriorist activities. 
 
A large population of Pakistani youth is doing commendable job, but a far larger population of youth is enrolled on the destructive activities under religious/political agenda.
 
6. There is no reason to fear from Indians, we have no agenda to outnumber the believers in other faith. In 1947, India had ~10% of Muslims which has grown to >15% now whereas in Pakistan, there were ~8% Hindus now reduced to <2%.
 
Post 1947 is the history of independent Pakistan, pre 1947 is the history of Hindustan, Bharat, the Bharat Varsha or Aryavart depending on the time period you refer to. Ofcourse, Sindh and Punjab and other provinces did existed before the birth of Pakistan nd they do have their own history and identity.
 
A discusion will serve the purpose and lead to meaningful learning only when we try to be humble and dont try to hurt others emotions on the basis of one's fake notions.
 
Regards,
 
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I hope our members remain tactful while discussing others national identities.
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Nitinsinh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2007 at 05:33
Originally posted by Seko

I hope our members remain tactful while discussing others national identities.
 
I fully subscribe to Seko's comment and am very sure we can avoid such things which are hindrance to the meaningful discussions on the topic and adversely affects the sense of brotherhood.
 
 
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hello.. Nice thread.  here's my take on it
 
Pakistan is a diverse country with many different cultures/ethnic groups inhabiting it.  From its indigenous civilization (Indus Valley, Gandhara, Talpuri, Mehtars) to overlapping histories with that of the Mughals, Persians, Central Asia and Greeks and with british, bangladesh india, Afghanistan and sikhs. 
 
The country has a diverse array of people who have cultural similarities from all our surrounding countries(Persia, Afghanistan, India, Tibet, Central Asia, Persian Gulf-Oman etc..) superimposed on its original native inhabitants particularly along the historic Indus river which has been the life line of the region probably since the beginning of human civilization. Add to this the multitude of migrations, invaders and 'outsiders' who have made Pakistan their home. 
 
Plus Pakistans location on the 'border land' where several regions meets(Middle East, South Asia, Asia, Central Asia, Persian Gulf and Arabian Sea) allows for this unique position.(similar to Turkey in a manner of speaking).. to categorize Pakistan as many ppl often incorrectly do under a 'single' paint brush as either this and that doesnt work and only leads to further confusion.  This diversity is a part of our identity just as much as it was in ancient times as it is at present.
 
 about my family, we are an 'original' peoples who have inhabited the Khyber pass for thousands of years. Any major migration into the area would most likely have had to have passed through our area. Maybe this explains why us Pakistani are great at being hospitable, but if you cross us... we will never forget it...lol!   The Afridi tribes was encountered by Alexander the great back in 326 B.C. so 'technically', you cant get any more original than Afridis!! lol!
 
Hope this helped :)
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 15:07
Yes, Afridi is still after that loser Pathan every time he faces him. lol.

Edited by Sparten - 24-Jul-2007 at 15:08
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mmm.. i didnt get it? what do u mean?
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Fair enough, but to put it as simple as possible. Pakistani ancestors need to be referred to as Pakistani. Calling them "Indian" only serves to cause confusion because of the modern country of India.

Pakistani history is the history of all Pakistani people. And I am sure that goes past 60 years.

As for people saying there are a lot of different ethnicities, look at India. It has 10 times as many ethnicities, and Ancient India sounds fine. And on top of that, Ancient India seems to include the history of People who dont call themselves Indian and never did. Face it, Afghanistan and Pakistan are not part of India. It was only during the British Raj for less than 100 years.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2007 at 00:44
Originally posted by MarcoPolo

mmm.. i didnt get it? what do u mean?
You don't watch cricket? Shahid Khan Afridi, who has an existantial problem with Irfan "fake" Pathan.? And tears into him every chance he gets?
 
 
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Originally posted by SpartaN117

Pakistani ancestors need to be referred to as Pakistani. Calling them "Indian" only serves to cause confusion because of the modern country of India.

Pakistani history is the history of all Pakistani people. And I am sure that goes past 60 years.

As for people saying there are a lot of different ethnicities, look at India. It has 10 times as many ethnicities, and Ancient India sounds fine. And on top of that, Ancient India seems to include the history of People who dont call themselves Indian and never did. Face it, Afghanistan and Pakistan are not part of India. It was only during the British Raj for less than 100 years.
 

The identity, now of Pakistan region is the identity bought by selling its own identity (the factual native Indian identity).

 

From Punjab/Sind to Bangladesh, its basically India. Religion is one that made to carve out these two independent nations. By culture, lingual and by people its same and whats going to be the identity for the carved outs. Identity of a child without its mothers characteristics!

 

Must understand one. Historically, the People/Rulers of India never developed an idea same as of the fellow nation china. Habitually china had taken in the Manchuria, Mongolia, Uyghur, Tibet one after another in. If the same had been take up by India, from Afghan to Myanmar its would be one identity, thats Indian identity.

 

Give a space somewhere for the root. Nothing in new and original. If you dont want to be called by the name India, why cant try with Vedic or Bharat. Its quite native for the todays pakistani soil too.
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Posts: 120 		  Quote SpartaN117 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2007 at 21:22
Originally posted by pumaaa123

Originally posted by SpartaN117

Pakistani ancestors need to be referred to as Pakistani. Calling them "Indian" only serves to cause confusion because of the modern country of India.

Pakistani history is the history of all Pakistani people. And I am sure that goes past 60 years.

As for people saying there are a lot of different ethnicities, look at India. It has 10 times as many ethnicities, and Ancient India sounds fine. And on top of that, Ancient India seems to include the history of People who dont call themselves Indian and never did. Face it, Afghanistan and Pakistan are not part of India. It was only during the British Raj for less than 100 years.
 

The identity, now of Pakistan region is the identity bought by selling its own identity (the factual native Indian identity).

 

From Punjab/Sind to Bangladesh, its basically India. Religion is one that made to carve out these two independent nations. By culture, lingual and by people its same and whats going to be the identity for the carved outs. Identity of a child without its mothers characteristics!

 

Must understand one. Historically, the People/Rulers of India never developed an idea same as of the fellow nation china. Habitually china had taken in the Manchuria, Mongolia, Uyghur, Tibet one after another in. If the same had been take up by India, from Afghan to Myanmar its would be one identity, thats Indian identity.

 

Give a space somewhere for the root. Nothing in new and original. If you dont want to be called by the name India, why cant try with Vedic or Bharat. Its quite native for the todays pakistani soil too.



You dont understand my point. You seem to think the Idea of One huge united nation of South Asia is an ancient thing. It isnt. the Indus Identity of Pakistan is very different from the Indian identity. The region was scattered with states before the British came and created British India.

The other thing is religion. Pakistanis have been muslims for something like 1300 years. Pakistan was part of Persian empire while India wasnt.

All these things add up to give Pakistan a different identity which the average Indian cant relate to. Grouping 1.6 billion people into an "Indian" identity doesnt make sense at all. Not only because its wishful thinking on your part, but historically it doesnt make sense either.

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Posts: 80 		  Quote pumaaa123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jul-2007 at 06:03
Originally posted by SpartaN117


The region was scattered with states before the British came and created British India.

No its not the exact. Always there was one emperor and number of kings in the sub continent. These kings actually survived accepting the supremacy of the emperor of their time. It was like one federal ruler and number of autonomous rulers within forming a union virtually.


Originally posted by SpartaN117

Pakistanis have been muslims for something like 1300 years. Pakistan was part of Persian empire while India wasnt.
 
You say Pakistan was under persian empire and so can claim an either identity.  Even India was under moguls and british. So did India undergo an identity change or what? But always there will be an impact. Be it Islam religion, be it Persian/Arab/Turk/Mongol blood in, the base cant be changed. So when you claim an identity now for Pakistan, naturally the common but Indian base comes there. What more? Claiming ahead of it would be nothing but belief or ideology.
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