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Meskhetian Turks

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    Posted: 13-May-2006 at 05:36
Hi this is my first post I'm new and I would like to be aware of my history Could someone tell me anything about the meskhetian Turks(ahiskali).
Where they came from. Did they moved there(modern day Georgia) after the occupation of anatolia by the turks or befor that. Are they real ethnic turks or just Turkefied Locals.

oh yeah btw are Turks mongoloid with caucasoid features or the other way.





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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 13:20
Welcome to the steppe Ahiska, here's a site for you: http://www.ozturkler.com/data_english/0008/0008_02.htm
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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 13:23

Originally posted by ahiska

Hi this is my first post I'm new and I would like to be aware of my history Could someone tell me anything about the meskhetian Turks(ahiskali).
Where they came from. Did they moved there(modern day Georgia) after the occupation of anatolia by the turks or befor that. Are they real ethnic turks or just Turkefied Locals.

oh yeah btw are Turks mongoloid with caucasoid features or the other way.



They're real thnic Turks, I think they've been in Georgia just as long as most Turks have been in the Caucasus.  Turks are both of what you just said.  Originally Turks were more Mongoloid, as a lot still are.  But now a days, after a lot of mixing, we have Caucasiod features as well, some more than others.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 15:21
thank you for the site but I allready red it but thanks anyway.
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  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 15:30
They were moved mainly during Stalin's era, but also during teh czarist regime.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 15:34
thank you verry much this I know my greatgrand father fled to Turkey at that time. What I want to know is about the roots of the meskh turks.

I've red that the ahiska or ak-sika (white castel) is an ancient oghuz region.
I want to lern about that.

But thanks anyway.
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  Quote Seljuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 16:26

USA recently accept some (around 20000) meskhetian turks for immigration.

here news links about it

http://www.churchworldservice.org/Immigration/archives/2005/ 09/74.html

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2005/07/meskhetian_turk .php



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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2006 at 00:00

Here's some realy good news I got from my forum:

Georgia to address Meskhetian issue
Sunday, April 23, 2006
FULYA ZERKAN

ANKARA - Turkish Daily News


The Georgian government has launched a process for the return of the Meskhetian Turks, a lesser known group of victimized people who were deported en masse in 1944 by former Soviet ruler Josef Stalin.

It's time to take concrete steps, not to make rhetoric, Giorgi Khaindrava, Georgian state minister for conflict resolution, said last week in Ankara.

The Georgian minister admitted that the process for resettlement of displaced Meskhetian Turks, who are dispersed worldwide, was not an easy one and called on the international community and neighboring Turkey to extend a helping hand in sorting out the matter.

We want these people to regain the rights they lost over history; we'll grant them their rights, he added.

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  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2006 at 20:07
The movement is funded by the west, especially the British. It aims to dilute the overwhelmingly strong Armenian presence in a couple of Georgian provinces, through where the BTC oil pipeline passes.

If it does take place its going to cause more problems than solve them:

 Meskheti Turks are already established wherever they are...(Turkmenistan)

Common sense: dont move Turks to places where the majority  of the population is Armenian. Especially when most of those people are descendants of the Genocide...

It is going to cause war and nothing more...an example of trading lives for oil, but then again there will be no oil if war starts.

On a related note...if the Georgian government is solely moving them from the "humanistic" point fo view, shouldt it also move Armenian Hamshenis who currently reside in the Urals, Uzbekistan and Turkemenistan...and were also moved by the Soviet government.


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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2006 at 23:14

Originally posted by mamikon

The movement is funded by the west, especially the British. It aims to dilute the overwhelmingly strong Armenian presence in a couple of Georgian provinces, through where the BTC oil pipeline passes.

If it does take place its going to cause more problems than solve them:

 Meskheti Turks are already established wherever they are...(Turkmenistan)

Common sense: dont move Turks to places where the majority  of the population is Armenian. Especially when most of those people are descendants of the Genocide...

It is going to cause war and nothing more...an example of trading lives for oil, but then again there will be no oil if war starts.

On a related note...if the Georgian government is solely moving them from the "humanistic" point fo view, shouldt it also move Armenian Hamshenis who currently reside in the Urals, Uzbekistan and Turkemenistan...and were also moved by the Soviet government.


Which genocide?

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  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2006 at 00:19
oh...I am sorry, I didnt know you guys dont cover WWI, my mistake...I assumed all members in history forums know a little history.

again, my apologies
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2006 at 13:26
Well regarding the Armenian issue....
 
 
About the Meshkets, I recently watched a very interesting documentary about Russia on Channel 4 called "Russia the Death of a Nation", the treatment of the Meshkets by the fanatical racist Cossak Russians was appauling to say the least, I was really shocked.
 
 

Death of a Nation

Mon 20 March 2006 9pm
Fifteen years after the fall of Communism, Marcel Theroux goes on a personal journey through Putin's Russia.


He discovers a country that's literally dying.

Facts about Russia:

- In the first six months of 2005, the Russian population fell by half a million;

- By the middle of this century Russia could lose up to half of its people, according to Russian government stats;

- Life expectancy for men is 56 years, the same as Bangladesh;

- Ten years ago, the life expectancy for men in Russia was 63;

- The World Health Organisation says that at a conservative estimate more than a million people will have died because of AIDS in Russia by 2020;

- Every other newborn baby is diagnosed with a disease at birth;

- There are more abortions every year in Russia than babies are born;

- Thanks to ill-health, 10 million Russians are infertile;

- A quarter of the population lives below the poverty line;

- Paradoxically, Moscow has more billionaires than any other city in the world;

- Although Russia's population is in freefall, they're still throwing people out. Thirty thousand Meshket Turks have recently had to seek asylum in America, having been forced from their homes in the south of the country by discriminatory laws and racist attacks.

When the Soviet Empire collapsed in 1991 it was generally assumed that life was going to get better for the average Russian. Sadly, however, as Marcel Theroux's journey through this vast and troubled country graphically demonstrates, most people are actually worse off than they were 15 years ago.

In fact, modern Russia seems to have most of the disadvantages of the old Communist system, but few of the advantages. Putin's uniquely thuggish and dictatorial version of democracy - with his restraints on media criticism and his reliance on police batons and guns to put across his point of view - has meant that Russians don't enjoy much more freedom than they did in the days of the KGB and the gulags. And now their heating bills have rocketed, food costs more, universal health care is a thing of the past and millions of jobs have disappeared.

Meanwhile, the majority of the country's wealth has been siphoned off by a tiny minority of oligarchs and mafia-backed businessmen. So, although the economy has grown rapidly in recent years (largely thanks to the country's vast mineral wealth), most people have grown poorer in real terms.

The country Theroux explores is in serious decline. The population is already falling and threatened further by the very real possibility of a million deaths from AIDS by 2020. Those that survive have given up on life. Picking his way through the blighted ruins of Ivanova, a former powerhouse of the Soviet command economy where two thirds of the population now live below the poverty line, he says "it looks like a bomb hit in 1991 and everyone went away."

Not surprisingly, most of the people he meets are traumatised and defeated - or half mad.

Two homeless alcoholics tell him tearfully "we weren't always like this". A billionaire smiles piously and explains how he plans to build dozens of new churches with his money, but Theroux also shows that this same man used anti-terrorist police armed with sub-machine guns to force people from their homes and is now using his trophy-wife as a puppet front for his own political career. A HIV positive man says that out of his 23 classmates, five are now junkies and 10 alcoholics.

Most shocking of all is his encounter with some racist Cossacks who have been persecuting the Turks in their neighbourhood. They accost the crew, force Theroux to drink their moonshine, whip the film's director until he's bleeding, and sing and dance uproariously while Theroux peruses their preferred reading matter: Mein Kampf.

"The next step is the concentration camp," he says, ashen faced.

Feature by Sam Jordison for More4

Programme credits
Director: Nick Hornby
Written and Presented by: Marcel Theroux

 
 
 
After reading up on the suffering of these poor Meshkets it would be great to see justice served and them allowed to re-locate to Georgia.
 
I think Georgia is currently on the verge of allowing them to re-settle? it would also guartantee the safty of the B-T-C pipeline and stop any motivation for a second Karabag this time taking place in Georgia.
 
Giving the Meshkets their justice is a win-win situation for the Meshkets, Georgia, Turkey and the West so I hope it all goes ahead.


Edited by Seko - 18-May-2006 at 11:08
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2006 at 13:45
A very good post Bulldog, welcome to AE!
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2006 at 14:14
Thanks, my interest in these matter's really increased thanks to "Turks Journey of 1000 years" exhibition which lasted 4 months in London's most prestigous Arts/Culture hall.
 
Believe me, prior to my many visits to this exhibition, initially I just went to see what all the fuss was about, after being blown away by the grandeur of your civillisation I reterned many time's for research purposes and to attend lectures and seminarts.
 
I was previously very ignorant about Turks and their history previously thought they just were from Turkey, then realised how could they just be from Turkey they didn't drop out of the sky.
 
Many people like me simply thought that Turks history is the Ottoman Empire and that's it.
 
Thankfully we got a serious education, many of the Brittish Elite got some well needed knowledge about the Turks which hadn't really been researched very thoroughly in Western Europe.
 
Its amazing to know that Turks rose to such extraordinary hights.
 
Its such a rich and immense history, they have been the rulers of World Empire's, in other occasions gone from being slaves to rebelling and heroically turning the table's to rule their old master's and have influenced the culture of Central Asia/Middle East/Europe more than we used to think.
 
 
 
 
It began with the Uygurs, then the Great Selcuks, then Timurids then the Ottomans.
 
Also there were seminars about the Pre-Islamic Turks and their migrations.
 
I also recently have read, Sons of Conquerors the Rise of the TUrkic World by Hugh Pope
 
 
 
A fantastic book.
 
My thought about the Turkic world today is that actually its a matter of time before a Turkic Pollitical Union is formed as you do refer to yourselves as "Turks" and still have kept strong ties and identities.
 
The grass-roots are being layed for this project, its just a matter of economics and foreign policy now.
 
America and the Uk are fond of this aswell for the reason's I mentioned above.
 
I think the only people with a problem here seem to be Iran. 
 
 
p.s Thank whoever scheduled and organised that Turks exhibition, they won Turks many influential friends Wink


Edited by Bulldog - 17-May-2006 at 14:15
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  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2006 at 14:59
"Guenter Lewy a very well respected genocide historian/researcher"

I was told the exact opposite...btw I think his wife is Turkish.
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2006 at 16:50
1. Have you read the book or his objective material ...
 
 
 
 
Anyway this has nothing to do with Mekhetian Turks and it has nothing to do with the Republic of Turkey, its an Ottoman issue.
 
You are right, it doesn't
 
Any new developments of the Meshkets being relocated to their native Georgia?


Edited by Seko - 18-May-2006 at 11:10
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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2006 at 20:30
Bulldog, welcome to the Steppe.  Good posts by the way and don't waste your time with...

Edited by Seko - 18-May-2006 at 11:11
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  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2006 at 22:07
 1. Have you read the book or his objective material

I think the book came out last year, and no I did not get a chance to take a look at it. I will borrow it from the school library if they have it...I bet it will be an interesting read....



Edited by Seko - 18-May-2006 at 11:10
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  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2006 at 22:13

A review by Dadrian of Lewy's book.

http://www.meforum.org/article/895

 
Off topic!


Edited by Seko - 18-May-2006 at 11:11
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2006 at 22:56

I've been away from my computer for most of the day only to find that a blacklisted discussion is going on in the steppes forum and very little has been written about the topic of this thread. The old timers should know better. Newbies need to acquaint themselves with the list of blacklisted topics.  http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10675 

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