Mysterious people who crushed Uyghurs

it is probarbly a myth

and vikings never could have been because its to far away and they need contstant river to move on

they are kyrgiz tribes actually. The kyrgiz back that time bit different than modern kyrgiz i think, cuz most of the Khitan tribes and some mongols merged to kyrgiz tribes later. And there is also some information about Kyrgiz people in chinese documents that also describe them as blond and blue eyed. They used the same description to Tocharian people as well, check this link:

http://sln.fi.edu/inquirer/mummy.html
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1359826746062884695




Edited by oghuzkb - 13-Feb-2007 at 19:23

A Chinese ruler of Xianbei origin was recorded as having had fair hair as were later some Tatars from the same area, as well as some other Tungusic people. So, it's not that much radical to see blonde people among northern Asiatic people.

Edited by gok_toruk - 14-Feb-2007 at 12:41

"Qirqizes" ruler had the title 'Qaqan'. This shows their high social position among Turkic people. In contrast, Uighurs contemporary to Qyrqizes were ruled by a leader who had the title 'Il Teber'. We all know, 'Il Teber' is a lower rank than a 'Qaqan'. Even "Kok Turk"s were not able to end their political life in their era. Later, when they invaded south (they were of northern tribes), they defeated Uighurs and invaded Orkhon.

Qyrqizes lived in "Abaqan". It's a fact that they were defeated once by "Il Etmish Qaqan" (Uighur Qaqan) in 739 A.D. But not long after that, an Uighur "Khan" who escaped to Qyrqizes, because of his quarrels with his own Uighurs, convinced Qyrqizes to attack Orkhon. And that's how Uighurs were defeated. The dead Uighur Qaqan was found among other dead people in the battle field. A part of Uighurs escaped to China in 848 A.D.

See "The Uighur Empire according to the Tang dynastic histories".

Barbar, could you please provide us with the documents you refer to about Qyrqizes that they were ruled by Uighurs?

Edited by gok_toruk - 15-Feb-2007 at 13:44

the genes which make the skin white is converging between mongolians and caucasians.

You know, you’re a moderator, you can speak the way you want. What do you mean ‘you got emotional’?

Only Kok Turks, 9 Oghuzes, Qyrqizes and 30 Tatars had Qaqans. The other groups had rulers like ‘Uluq Erkin’, ‘Il Teber’, etc., because of their lower political status.

Before being the rulers of Otuken, Uighurs were ruled by 9 Oghuzes and Kok Turks. Turkic inscriptions say they had “Il Teber”. 9 Oghuzes had Qaqan, but the same can’t be said about Uighurs.

According to Oghuz Qaqa, Qyrqizes were rulled by 9 Oghuzes. Oghuz Qaqa also ruled Uighurs. According to Turkic inscriptions, Qyrqizes, together with Quriqans, were classified as 30 Tatars.

You didn’t support your claim that Uighurs ruled Qyrqizes. My references are:

“Orkhon Inscriptions”
"The Uighur Empire according to the Tang dynastic histories".

Chinese historians also mentioned Qyrqizes used to burn their dead people. But this is a Slav tradition. Seems paradoxical…

Yes, we know about putting on a tree, but that’s not for Shamanis Turks. We know Qyrqizes were Shamanist. But burning their dead people is paradoxical.

Anyhow, could you please provide us with the documents in which it’s demonstrated Qyrqizes were ruled by Uighurs?

gok turuk - Yes, we know about putting on a tree, but that�s not for Shamanis Turks.

I dont want to go to off topic , but fire worship was quite widespread among Turkic peoples.  Even today the Khakas and Tyvan Turks believe in the �t �n� (fire mother).  So it doesnt conflict with Animism or "shamanism" at all.

Most of the northern tribes mentioned in Turkic inscriptions, such as 9 Oghuzes, Qyrqizes, Yer Bayirqy, practiced Shamanism while Uighurs, for instance, did not.

Yes, a "Shaman" had a great role in society. He participated in religous deeds as well as medical ones. But for sure, the society was not based on her or him. You're right if you mean we can't classify Shamanism as a unique religion, because each of the practicers, relied (or should I say persisted) on one or a few of the numerous Shamanistic Gods. That's what Aykurt talks about when saying "Allahist", "Moslem", "Ot Ana", etc.

Edited by gok_toruk - 28-Feb-2007 at 03:19