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Dumb and dumber

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Poll Question: Which American President was dumber?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
5 [9.62%]
47 [90.38%]
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Beylerbeyi View Drop Down
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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dumb and dumber
    Posted: 05-Jul-2007 at 16:16
We know that while all American presidents are evil, not all are dumb. Some were really smart people like Nixon. 
 
However, I had the previlage to witness the reign of two price-winning idiots recently. The problem is I cannot decide which one is dumber.
 
Now, everyone knows Dubya, but considering many people here are younger than I am, I'll give some info on Reagan.
 
He was a bad actor who became the Governor of California (sounds familiar!). He later became the President, because his acting experience was useful in making speeches. Behind him, in the government, were people like Cheney and Rumsfeld (sounds familiar!). He had an astrologer in the White House...
 
Here are some quotes about him:
 
"I don't think he's read the report in detail. It's five-and-a-half pages, double-spaced." -- Larry Speakes explaining why Ronnie didn't know about a recent truck bombing in Beirut. 5 Oct 1984

There are times when you really need him to do some work, and all he wants to do is tell stories about his movie days." -- Anonymous White House aide. 31 Aug 1980

"He knows less about the budget than any president in my lifetime. He can't even carry on a conversation about the budget. It's an absolute and utter disgrace." -- House Speaker Tip O'Neill after a meeting with Ronnie. 23 Nov 1980

"He only works three to three and a half hours a day. He doesn't do his homework. He doesn't read his briefing papers. It's sinful that this man is President of the United States." -- Tip O'Neill exasperated after meeting with Ronnie. 31 Oct 1983

"What do you do when your President ignores all the palpable, relevant facts and wanders in circles?" -- David Stockman (ex Reagan Cabinet member), explaining what briefings with Ronnie were like. 12 April 1986

"God, he's a bore. And a bad actor. Besides, he has a low order of intelligence, with a certain cunning. And not animal cunning, Human cunning. Animal cunning is too fine an expression for him. He's inflated, he's egotistical -- he's one of those people who thinks he is right, and he's not right. He's not right about anything." -- Movie director John Huston (to Rolling Stone), after a meeting with Ronnie.

"An amiable dunce." -- Clark Gifford (former Defense Secretary), describing Ronnie at a Georgetown dinner party.

"... that incoherent cretin." -- Andre Faulds (British Labour Party member), discussing Ronnie in Parliament.

"Stupefyingly incredible." -- British Labour Party member Denis Healy's reaction to Ronnie's "explaining" trading weapons for hostages with Iran. 14 Nov 1986

"I was sitting there so worried about 'throw weight', and Reagan suddenly asks us if we've seen War Games." -- Anonymous Congressman after a meeting with Ronnie to discuss arms control. 7 June 1983

"His answers to any questions about young men being killed for some vague and perhaps non-existent reason in Central America has been to smile, nod, wave a hand and walk on. And America applauds, thus proving that senility is a communicable disease." -- Columnist Jimmy Breslin explaining Ronnie's ability to "get away with it".

"Since when is it considered cruel and unusual punishment to expect the President to learn the facts he needs to govern?" -- Geraldine Ferraro asking an impossible question to answer. 11 Oct 1984

"Mr. Reagan's ignorance about the Soviet Union and his air-headed rhetoric on the issues of foreign policy and arms control have reached the limit of tolerance and have become and embarrassment to the US and a danger to world peace." -- The Chicago Tribune telling the truth in endorsing (!) Ronnie for re-election. 28 Oct 1984
 
Most incredible thing about Reagan is that the American Conservatives worship him because due to a fluke he happened to be on the throne when the Soviet Union collapsed. Of course, that the American cons believe the imbecilic Raygun destroyed the SU, is a testament to their unsurpassed genious.
 
So, help me decide, which one is dumber?
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bgturk View Drop Down
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  Quote bgturk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2007 at 17:04
I voted Dubya, and here is why:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VvvPzVdP-DM

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eaglecap View Drop Down
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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2007 at 18:28


It's an act for his globalist puppet masters.



Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2007 at 21:18
Originally posted by bgturk

I voted Dubya, and here is why:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VvvPzVdP-DM



You needed to see it to believe it! That's shocking
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2007 at 22:34
I dont think Bush is as dumb as he may appear. He is quite populist, and likes to have a folksy image, giving Americans the impression he is one of them (which he clearly isnt). Since a large part of his electorate is vehemently anti-intellectual (often disguised in politics as anti-elitism) the worst thing he can do is behave like an intellectual. Bush stressing his Texan roots is also an example of this, although in reality he was born in Connecticut, and clearly the Texan lifestyle is more appealing to the avarage Joe than the Connecticut one.
 
I dont know how Reagan was in regards to this, since when he was in power I was born, but in any case I voted for him.
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  Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2007 at 23:14
Gee, I can't think of any act that could offer proof of one's intelligence more than accusing two political figures of being stupid, producing some comedic quotes by the first man's political adversaries to add "context", and constructing a poll seeking to determine which one is "dumber." The thing that really illustrates exactly how much mental energy this whole thing took to cook up, however, is the incredibly poetic first line which asserts the "evil" nature of a succession of politicians spanning nearly two and a half centuries, as a universally held fact. Unfortunately, I'm afraid I will be unable to participate. You will forgive me, but all of this heady intellectualism is a bit over my head.
 
-Akolouthos


Edited by Akolouthos - 05-Jul-2007 at 23:19
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  Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2007 at 00:34
Originally posted by Akolouthos

Gee, I can't think of any act that could offer proof of one's intelligence more than accusing two political figures of being stupid, producing some comedic quotes by the first man's political adversaries to add "context", and constructing a poll seeking to determine which one is "dumber." The thing that really illustrates exactly how much mental energy this whole thing took to cook up, however, is the incredibly poetic first line which asserts the "evil" nature of a succession of politicians spanning nearly two and a half centuries, as a universally held fact. Unfortunately, I'm afraid I will be unable to participate. You will forgive me, but all of this heady intellectualism is a bit over my head.
 
-Akolouthos
 
Well... for every step forward in learning a little about ourseleves, there is alway's those that help the rest in taking "10 steps" back!
 
Perhaps there need's too be an international school where everyone can go. In which...  helps and teaches them too recognise political bias when they see or read about it?
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  Quote kurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2007 at 04:38
I voted for Bush, but i have to emphasise that Reagan is an illiterate moron, in my opinion. Not to mention a christian fundamentalist, a group of people who believe the world is 12 000 years old.

Edited by kurt - 06-Jul-2007 at 04:41
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  Quote kurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2007 at 04:43
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

We know that while all American presidents are evil 
Only after Franklin Roosevelt's reign, so far as I am concerned.
 
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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2007 at 08:33

producing some comedic quotes by the first man's political adversaries to add "context",

Some of the quotes are from people who work with him, one is from a White House aide, and another from a member of his own cabinet. So either his 'political allies' call him dumb, or he's a dumb enough to have his political adversaries in his cabinet. In both cases, he is dumb.
 
The thing that really illustrates exactly how much mental energy this whole thing took to cook up, however, is the incredibly poetic first line which asserts the "evil" nature of a succession of politicians spanning nearly two and a half centuries, as a universally held fact.
 
Well, I wasn't being entirely serious there. But I see your sense of humour matches your IQ in its grandeur. 
 
Unfortunately, I'm afraid I will be unable to participate. You will forgive me, but all of this heady intellectualism is a bit over my head.
 
If the topic overwhelms your intellect, so that you can't participate, don't participate. You don't need to write a paragraph to excuse yourself. This is not grade school, and I am nor your teacher.
 
Only after Franklin Roosevelt's reign, so far as I am concerned.
 
Well, I wasn't being entirely serious, as I wrote. Unfortunately nowadays people have a hard time with sense of humour unless you out some ugly yellow faces next to your sentences.
 
However, do you mean that you are not concerned by the genocidal, slave driving, expansionistic racial supremacism US presidents have been practising until Roosevelt?   
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2007 at 09:04
Originally posted by kurt

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

We know that while all American presidents are evil
Only after Franklin Roosevelt's reign, so far as I am concerned.

You should exclude Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2007 at 09:40
Bush without a doubt. I listen to leaders of countries giving speeches and read famous speeches from the past. It helps to give me an idea of the way the country has gone or will go. Bush running for election gave some good speeches about toughening up after Clinton. His words were a winner and duly got him elected. Then the speeches started to change. One would swear he had a heart attack after the election. He began to slur his words and bumble over simple words in simple speeches.

After the eloquence of Clinton, Bush sounded more like a schoolboy with a nose full of snot. Watch him closely when speaking. His eyes wander about the room in an aimless fashion, he laughs at his own jokes but always miss the point and so does everybody else. His eyes light up in delight and surprise when he get a sentence out in a straight way. His actions are never those of a leader and his administration has made a mockery out of rule of law. I don't know whether he is dumb, in my opinion he seems to have a pathological medical condition.
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  Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2007 at 11:10
Originally posted by Beylerbeli

Well, I wasn't being entirely serious there. But I see your sense of humour matches your IQ in its grandeur. 
 
Now, now. I've never claimed to be anything other than a doddering simpleton.
 
If the topic overwhelms your intellect, so that you can't participate, don't participate. You don't need to write a paragraph to excuse yourself. This is not grade school, and I am nor your teacher.
 
I am actually so slow-witted that I mistook you for my teacher. I now realize that this is not grade school and you nor are my teacher. Although given that my humble sense of humor must, of necessity, match my even more humble IQ, I don't quite understand how you expected me to come up with that on my own.
 
Unfortunately nowadays people have a hard time with sense of humour unless you out some ugly yellow faces next to your sentences.
 
I actually have to agree with you here. Well phrased.
 
However, do you mean that you are not concerned by the genocidal, slave driving, expansionistic racial supremacism US presidents have been practising until Roosevelt?   
 
LOL
 
-Akolouthos
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2007 at 14:05

REagan was a disater as President, his aides did all the work, he was unaware of so many things as illustrated by the "Iran-Contra" affair. His reign marks a transformation, from Franklin Roosevelt onwards (actually even before, but it was confimed in Roosevelts time) the Presidency was imperial in nature the President was incharge and all the decisions were made by him, the cabinat was just for advice and delegation when necessary. As for Reagan the cabinat became like a council of misisters due to his very hands off "management style", Wienberger, Schultz and and the rest all made theirm own policy.

Seems to have continued in the Bush Presidency.
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2007 at 22:25
I think the Reagan administration worked much better because of his hands off style of delegation. Bush blunders because he interferes too much with the various arms of government.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2007 at 08:40
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  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2007 at 12:25

From a liberal pespective, all governments are necassarily evil.

Thakfully I am not a liberal intellectual.

As for the thread, Reagan knew leadership. He was simple and clear..That's why he is rated higher than a much more intelligent president, Carter.

Leaders do the right thing, and by forcing the USSR to engage in a star-wars competition, he did the right thing!

Bush's background seems ''smarter''...But he was not a good elader as Reagan as.



Edited by TheDiplomat - 08-Jul-2007 at 12:27
ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2007 at 12:49
Originally posted by TheDiplomat

From a liberal pespective, all governments are necassarily evil.

Yeah, except liberal ones.
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  Quote The_Jackal_God Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 18:33
wow, a cuban talking about bad leadership.

now that's funny !
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 20:28
Has Cuba still got a leader nowadays? 
elenos
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