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Mangudai
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Topic: Ottoman empires name Posted: 04-Apr-2005 at 05:23 |
What was the official name for the ottoman empire? I've heard Osmanli imparatoroglu? Is Imparator = latin Imperator (emperor)?
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aknc
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Posted: 04-Apr-2005 at 10:14 |
Yes emperor is correct.But they used Osmanli devleti.devlet=government or country.Osman bey is the founder so it has his name Osman(li)
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Posted: 04-Apr-2005 at 11:21 |
Osman Bey was the founder, so from his name, the empire's name was derived with the same mentality in some other Turkish empires ( Seluk Bey/ Seluk-lu, Osman Bey/ Osman-l). So the official name was first, Osmanl Beylii, and then Osmanl Devleti, and finally, Osmanl mparatorluu...
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Feramez
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Posted: 04-Apr-2005 at 13:41 |
So how did the English translation become Ottoman instead of keeping it Osmanli? English historians still refer to him as Osman but the name of the empire is Ottoman.
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ramin
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Posted: 04-Apr-2005 at 16:44 |
at first, it was a typo then at a glance everyone were using it ![](smileys/smiley36.gif) (not true, but a funny story!)
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azimuth
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Posted: 05-Apr-2005 at 04:00 |
the transilated history book i have written by Farid Bek calls the Ottoman sate as " Al Dawlah Al Othmaniyah"
also in Arabic books it was mentioned as "Dawlat Aal Othman" which meant " the sate of Othman family"
also i think the proper name is "The Sultanat of Othman." because it was ruled by Sultans
i remmember reading a message sent by Suleyman alqanoni to the French King, in that message Suleyman's title was the Sultan of the Sultans and the maker of the Kings.
nice Message shows how confident he is about his power. i think it was mentioned in Jawdat Basha history.
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Alparslan
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Posted: 05-Apr-2005 at 06:05 |
Originally posted by azimuth
i remmember reading a message sent by Suleyman alqanoni to the French King, in that message Suleyman's title was the Sultan of the Sultans and the maker of the Kings.
nice Message shows how confident he is about his power. i think it was mentioned in Jawdat Basha history. |
I think it is more than confidence since he really made Francois king of France.
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Beylerbeyi
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Posted: 05-Apr-2005 at 06:11 |
Usually it is referred to as 'Devlet-i Ali Osmani' as Azimuth wrote. Like all empires it is referred to by the name of its ruling dynasty.
In English it is called Ottoman because what the Turks pronounce 'Osman' is 'Uthman or Othman' in Arabic original/Arabic script. Turkish has no 'th' so it becomes 's'. The English word probably originated from written sources.
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Posted: 05-Apr-2005 at 10:06 |
I think the Ottoman rulers mostly used the title "Padishah" instead of "sultan". I also know that some of them were also called "khan", like Mehmet II Khan the Conquerer...
Edited by Oguzoglu
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aknc
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Posted: 05-Apr-2005 at 15:37 |
Why khan?
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azimuth
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Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 03:17 |
Originally posted by Oguzoglu
I think the Ottoman rulers mostly used the title "Padishah" instead of "sultan". I also know that some of them were also called "khan", like Mehmet II Khan the Conquerer... |
the title khan is used after the name and the title sultan used before the name
in that message or letter which Sulyman sent to the french king he mentioned that " Iam the Sultan Sulyman khan the son of the Sultan Salim khan
also another name for the Ottoman was " Aldawlah Aluthmaniyah Alaleyah" which meant "The Highness State of Uthman" or this one "Devlet-i Aliye-i Osmaniye"
i wasn't able to find an english transilation of that letter but i found part of it.
You! Francois, the King of French province! You have sent a letter to us with your ambassador and informed us about the enemy that entered to your country and imprisoned you. So, you asked our favour for your freedom. It is not bizarre for a sovereign to be defeated or to be imprisoned. Do not worry about it. We have taken our arms and have been riding our horses for days and nights. Every thing will be as the God wishes.
The German Emperor Charles, was defeated in the Mohac War and he went in fear with the siege of Vienna and he freed Francois.
Interestingly, Sultan Suleyman addresses the French King as, You! Francois, the king of the French province. This addressing reveals that, Kanuni saw France as a small province and the French King as a governor.
Edited by azimuth
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Mangudai
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Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 08:44 |
Charles defeated at Mohcs??? Did the ottomans write that to Francois? Lol, he wasn't even near the place, in fact he never fought the ottomans on the field...
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aknc
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Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 10:26 |
Exactly.Mohac War ?
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ihsan
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Posted: 11-Apr-2005 at 19:02 |
The official name of the Ottoman Empire was "Devlet-i l-i Osmn" or "Devlet-i Aliyye Osmniyye".
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Posted: 12-Apr-2005 at 06:01 |
Originally posted by ihsan
"Devlet-i Aliyye Osmniyye". |
yeah that was the official one.
Devlet = state
Aliyye = allmighty
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Kenaney
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Posted: 29-Apr-2005 at 12:48 |
Why it is in English Ottoman and not Osman or Ozman whatever.
Other meaning of the name Osman is Oghuzman, you maybe know mostly of the Turks in Turkey where then (and still know) Turkmens who are part of the Oghuz boy (like family three).
Ive heard in Algeria and some North-Afrikan country they call their sons Othman (called Ozman).
ALternative names for Turkey whas called by Ziya Gkalp whas Oghuzistan. But they prefer Turkiye because it whas the only Turkish state then it that times.
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azimuth
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Posted: 30-Apr-2005 at 04:00 |
its arabic and the proper way to pronounce it is Uthman
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Posted: 30-Apr-2005 at 09:28 |
Originally posted by azimuth
its arabic and the proper way to pronounce it is Uthman |
I agree, because the sound "th" doesnt exist in Turkish, Turks pronounced it as Osman. We also call Muhammed "Mehmet", because of Turkish grammer rules.
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azimuth
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Posted: 03-May-2005 at 01:26 |
to be more accurate the name Uthman is not pronounced OTHMAAN the first letter is not O or U , it is different in the Pronounciation
its like the first letter of Uthman is the same as the first letter of Ali. it will make more sence if u know Arabic.
also the name Muhammed has different pronounciation, the letter H is pronounced differently.
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baracuda
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Posted: 13-May-2005 at 03:05 |
Russians use 'Ottoman' - for the commander of the cossaks, and Osmanskiy emperii for the ottoman empire
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