The European Atrocity You Never Heard About

http://chronicle.com/article/The-European-Atrocity-You/132123

It's not an atrocity as it prevented the sort of prewar ethnic tensions Hitler used to justify the invasion of the Sudetenland (like the modern-day Serbs invading Kosovo). During the war the Germans stole land belonging to Poles and Czechs to turn into "Lebensraum", as the Zionists are now doing in Palestine.

Then you continue to fail to recognize the historical reality and record of the world in which you live.

Originally posted by Nick1986 It's not an atrocity as it prevented the sort of prewar ethnic tensions Hitler used to justify the invasion of the Sudetenland (like the modern-day Serbs invading Kosovo). During the war the Germans stole land belonging to Poles and Czechs to turn into "Lebensraum", as the Zionists are now doing in Palestine.

What the winners have done to postwar Germans is as unjust as the Germans did to Czechs and Poles at the beginning of the war.

The only difference is that while Germans gave back what they stole, the Poles didn't.



And I want to make a paranthesis: there is an idea among Poles (and not only) that most of East Germany is Slavic land, because the toponymy is Slavic in a big measure and that shows that before Germans there lived Slavs.
One who knows the historical evidence cannot see this idea but as a joke, because in fact that most of the territory of present Poland was originally inhabited by Germans. Slavs must have been the ruling aristocracy and what we call today Poles are to some degree the result of Slavicization of Germans and other peoples that inhabited the area.


f

If it is then it's not obvious. As the OP did not present any verification, and nebulous at that, until the fourth post. As for overdue concern potentially on my part for the Romanians...Antonescu actions and the 280000 plus Jews eliminated by his Romanian cohorts settled that. And while Michael may have attempted to rectify the wrong this was as much due to soviet invasion and pressure as any other...and the treaty of 47 saw to the rest...but I digress.     ''If you want to be a moral person, you must condemn these atrocities the Allies (again, especially Russians) have done. If is not the moral subject that concern you, then what is your idea? That nothing matters or everything can be justified?''     Morality as expressed by an individual is not necessarily to be confused by the objective historian in the review of the event....as a requirement. Matter of fact it is to be avoided...because invariably it then leads to a subjective analysis and usually a predisposition to portray the event in a manner that does not disclose all considerations and multi-causation.       And in effect an attempt to rewrite the event that it might be presented in a more favorable light for one version (side) then another.          Your failure to mention the Romanian involvement with the Nazi's is a case in point.         As to whether an action or lack thereof can be morally justified is  more a concern for Priests and theologians and or philosophers....tho it is admitted that even the most objective historian regularly practices it. As do soldiers as directed by their leaders.... even when they dont normally believe it of value when someone is trying to kill them. Those with a sense of humanity none the less attempt it.      Politicians are another story.        As for me, whether I justify it or not is immaterial. Even when I attempt it. Otoh....whether I endeavor to report it, ie. the event, accurately, as a historian, is.

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Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 09-Jul-2012 at 01:38

Originally posted by Menumorut Originally posted by Nick1986 It's not an atrocity as it prevented the sort of prewar ethnic tensions Hitler used to justify the invasion of the Sudetenland (like the modern-day Serbs invading Kosovo). During the war the Germans stole land belonging to Poles and Czechs to turn into "Lebensraum", as the Zionists are now doing in Palestine. What the winners have done to postwar Germans is as unjust as the Germans did to Czechs and Poles at the beginning of the war. The only difference is that while Germans gave back what they stole, the Poles didn't. And I want to make a paranthesis: there is an idea among Poles (and not only) that most of East Germany is Slavic land, because the toponymy is Slavic in a big measure and that shows that before Germans there lived Slavs. One who knows the historical evidence cannot see this idea but as a joke, because in fact that most of the territory of present Poland was originally inhabited by Germans. Slavs must have been the ruling aristocracy and what we call today Poles are to some degree the result of Slavicization of Germans and other peoples that inhabited the area. f

You can't compare the legitimate expulsion of invaders with Germans' mistreatment and systematic genocide of Poles and Jews. During the war the Germans took over Polish and Jewish property, expelled the original owners and walled them up in ghettos before transportation to the concentration camps or factories using slave labor. The most disgusting thing about it is these expelled German "refugees" have never apologised for the theft or mistreatment of their victims and some are even demanding compensation for losing their "Lebensraum." They got what was coming to them


Edited by Nick1986 - 12-Jul-2012 at 19:36

Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis Antonescu actions and the 280000 plus Jews eliminated by his Romanian cohorts settled that. And while Michael may have attempted to rectify the wrong this was as much due to soviet invasion and pressure as any other...and the treaty of 47 saw to the rest...but I digress.

What about the crimes of colonial Britain for example? This is history, the people that commited those are not representative for the present population. I mean, don't demonize something.


Romanians were historically the most peaceful European people, they never attacked other countries and their tolerance is proverbial. Ask any Hungarian or other minority in which country they would feel secure.

Romania has also the greatest percent of Jews that escaped the Holocaust due to actions of individualslike the major of Cernăți who saved most of the Jews in this city. Thanks to these action, more than half of Jews that were living in Romania were saved (410,000 from the original 689,000). In North Transylvania that was part of Hungary during war, from 139,000, 135,000 were killed by Horthysts.

The numbers of the Jews killed in Romania according to Jewish estimations may also be inflated, a bigger number meaning that the Jewish community can claim more compensations from Romania. Most serious (not nationalist) Romanian historians estimate the number of Jews killed in Romania at 216,000.

More numbers:

Wikipedia

These Volksdeutsch were the same people who demanded the Nazis invade Czechoslovakia and benefited from the expropriation of the Poles. They built a wall around Krakow ghetto that deliberately resembled tombstones and, according to Goldhagen, were aware of and willingly assisted in the Holocaust

Originally posted by red clay   Unfortunate but true.  Madrigals detailing the heroic feats of the winners were first sung after the battle of Hastings.  The losers sat around singing Shut up and Deal.

Originally posted by Cryptic As a side note, the stated death toll of 500,000 appears to be highly exaggerated.  The official German government fatality numbers relating to the Czech expulsions is 30,000.  The Czechs admit only to about 3,000 deaths.  The German and Czech differences are mainly due to the fact that the Czechs only count direct fatalities, where as the Germans appear to count deaths from ordinarily preventable illnesses, suicides etc.  There is also dispute over which particular killings were the work of Soviet Troops or the work of Czech militias. Originally posted by Nick1986 It's not an atrocity as it prevented the sort of prewar ethnic tensions Hitler used to justify the invasion of the Sudetenland... The Czechs also expelled theor Hungarian minority (very small, about 15,000) and would have expelled their Polish minority as well had not the Poles threatned to fight over it and the Soviets forbade expelling "pro communist" (at least on paper) minorities.