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Damascus Steel Was Made in Turkmen Merv
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Tangriberdi View Drop Down
Earl
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Posts: 267 		  Quote Tangriberdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Damascus Steel Was Made in Turkmen Merv
    Posted: 29-Oct-2006 at 14:59
Originally posted by Zagros

Tashkent, Samarqand, Balkh, Bukhara, Dushanbe, Merv, Tus etc all Iranian names - yea nonsense.
  
Tashkent  is semi Turkic semi Iranic
Tash means a stone or outside
Kand is sogdian for village.
 
Samarqand is also semi Turkic semiıranic name
Samar is a form of Semiz, Plomb, bİg , well developped.
Buhara is Sogdian Vkhara
Dushanbe is Persian
Marv is Bakhtrian
 
So what happens if some local names are of different origin. There are many Turkic and Arabic place names in Iran or In Afghanistan or in Tajikistan too.
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Tangriberdi View Drop Down
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Posts: 267 		  Quote Tangriberdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Oct-2006 at 15:03
Originally posted by Zagros

Tashkent, Samarqand, Balkh, Bukhara, Dushanbe, Merv, Tus etc all Iranian names - yea nonsense.
  
Tashkent  is semi Turkic semi Iranic
Tash means a stone or outside
Kand is sogdian for village.
 
Samarqand is also semi Turkic semiıranic name
Samar is a form of Semiz, Plomb, bİg , well developped.
Buhara is Sogdian Vkhara
Dushanbe is Persian
Marv is Bakhtrian
 
So what happens if some local names are of different origin. There are many Turkic and Arabic place names in Iran or In Afghanistan or in Tajikistan too.
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konstantinius View Drop Down
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Posts: 762 		  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Oct-2006 at 18:42
Well, the one thing I agree with is Tangriberdi's avatar.  The geographical locations being discussed in this thread prove the point.


Edited by konstantinius - 29-Oct-2006 at 18:46
" I do disagree with what you say but I'll defend to my death your right to do so."
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Mordoth View Drop Down
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Posts: 192 		  Quote Mordoth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Oct-2006 at 22:03
Right , Turks were capable to develop their blacksmith with the overgoing years . Haha , They were nomadic and basically, before a sedentary life , they were about to defend themselves against hordes of yaws ( enemies )
If Electricity Comes from Electrons ; does Morality come from Morons :|
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Posts: 398 		  Quote Preobrazhenskoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2006 at 01:38
Originally posted by Shir


The furnaces which have been found out during the excavation at ancient Merv, were very well developed, that allowed them to reach very high temperature necessary for the appropriate work, namely - 1400 degrees on Cesium. Yet not so long time scientists assumed, that the most high-temperature furnaces of that time were in China, but furnaces from Merv were better. Furnaces in Merv were made of clay bricks. Approximately 20 centimeters lower than a level of the furnace which have been found out in Merv, there was a L-shaped pipe. Probably, this central entrance air aperture should play an important role for the top floors of the furnace. In this case the heated air which was passing through a pipe, was capable to raise the temperature of the furnace as well. Therefore, it is quite logical to assume, that these passes carried out a role of vent pipes for a conclusion of the gases heated during combustion and additional heating of the furnace.
 
Wait a minute, how is this ventilation process proven to be "better" than that of any one Chinese blast furnace during the 9th century, and Chinese steel of the same period? The Chinese had been making steel since roughly the 1st century BC, during the Western Han Dynasty, and were the first to innovate the clay-walled blast furnace and cast-iron in the 6th century BC. I'm no expert on Damascus steel or even Chinese steel-working and blast furnaces for that matter, but I would like to know how the one located at Merv was superior.
 
Eric


Edited by Preobrazhenskoe - 30-Oct-2006 at 01:41
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Guests View Drop Down
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 00:33
             Damascus steel originated in India, many archeological evidences can easily be found by just googlig.
            Moreover another important point is that Indians have a name for this type of steel, alomost in all the regional languges as well, signifying the presence of Damascus steel in India from long time. it is called "UKKU" in Telugu my other indian freinds would probabaly list out its name in their regional language.

Metalsmiths in India and Sri Lanka perhaps as early as 300 BC developed a new technique known as wootz steel that produced a high-carbon steel of unusually high purity. Glass was added to a mixture of iron and charcoal and then heated. The glass would act as a flux and bind to other impurities in the mixture, allowing them to rise to the surface and leave a more pure steel when the mixture cooled. Thousands of steel making sites were found in Samanalawewa area in Sri Lanka that made high carbon steel (Juleff, 1996). These steel making furnaces were built facing western monsoon winds and wind turbulance and suction was used to create heat in the furnace. Steel making sites in Sri Lanka have been dated to 300 BC using carbon dating technology. The technique propagated very slowly through the world, reaching modern-day Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan around 900 AD, and then the Middle East around 1000 AD.

t has long been argued that the raw material for Damascus steel swords was imported from India, because India was the only known center of crucible-fired steels like wootz. However this conclusion became suspect when the furnaces in Turkmenistan were discovered, demonstrating at least that the technique was moving out from India. The wootz may have been manufactured locally in the Damascus area, but so far no remains of the distinctive wootz furnaces have appeared. Verhoeven et al.'s work supports the hypothesis that the wootz used was from India, as several key impurities that appear to give Damascus steel its properties point to particular ores available only in India.

courtesy wikipedia

 Do u have any doubts still
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Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 04:23
Yes I have a lot of doubts. Damascus steel is very interesting from a materials science perspective, I once had a tutor who had studied it in depth and although I can't remember most of the details I do know one thing for sure: We have no idea how it was made. So you telling me its manufactoring process sort of destroys the credibilty of your post.

The glass would act as a flux and bind to other impurities in the mixture, allowing them to rise to the surface and leave a more pure steel when the mixture cooled.

This sentence I can tell you is technobabble. Pure Steel is an oxymoron.
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Posts: 581 		  Quote Goban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 07:59
Although Wikipedia is not the source of all sources, I remember (slightly) researching wootz myself, and I think he is correct...
 
I remember (at the time) experimental archaeologists trying to tackle this very question... I have research papers due this week, else I would kindly find my old notes (I keep 'em all). But a lot of good info can be found by asking the knowledgeable folks at Sword Forum International.. http://www.swordforum.com/ 
The sharpest spoon in the drawer.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2006 at 20:15

The secret in the smelting of Damascus steel was not in the core material although it required that this be as free of carbon and other elements as possible. This refined iron was most likely purified by repeatedly heating and forging which burned off the carbon and other impurities. Youve all seen the sparks that fly when a blacksmith strikes the metal on his anvil?? This method was in common use into the 19th century.  The most important use of this metal was to form intricate scrolls or ornamental ironwork famous in Arabian architecture, but was too soft to hold an edge for cutting. Somewhere, someone, probably(??) accidentally placed the forged blade into a nitrogen bearing material such as animal manure  to cool. He then  noted an improvement in the surface hardness, now known as case hardening . Case hardening is a simple metalurgical process whereby either nitrogen or carbon is absorbed by defusion into the surface of Iron or steel. A more modern method was to place the iron or semi steel object in a container filled with either the N or C material, heat in a furnace for a certain time and temperature and voila Damascus steel

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