Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Yugoslav wars
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 345
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Spartakus View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
terörist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489 		  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Yugoslav wars
    Posted: 18-May-2007 at 13:28
Originally posted by es_bih

The government wasn't exactly innocent either, however, yes in the videos there are Greek soldiers in Srebrenica.

 
You mean paramilitaries. By using the term "soldiers" you imply official involvement of the Hellenic/Greek army and State, which never happened.
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
Back to Top
Penelope View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Alia Atreides

Joined: 26-Aug-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1042 		  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2007 at 00:57
Not to interupt the discussion at hand, but i would just like to ask if any of you were actually born in Yugoslavia, becuase i was born there, to Greek parents.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2007 at 02:22
I was
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2007 at 02:23
Originally posted by Spartakus

Originally posted by es_bih

The government wasn't exactly innocent either, however, yes in the videos there are Greek soldiers in Srebrenica.

 
You mean paramilitaries. By using the term "soldiers" you imply official involvement of the Hellenic/Greek army and State, which never happened.
 
The Serbian government was involved in the Bosnian war, although it was paramilitaries from Serbia that did its bidding, the Greek government had in depth knowledge of those paramilitaries, and kept quiet about it.
Back to Top
Spartakus View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
terörist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489 		  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2007 at 12:52
It was their desicion to be there,so why do you accuse the Hellenic goverment?

Edited by Spartakus - 19-May-2007 at 12:52
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2007 at 00:09

I'm not accussing everyone, however, some members of government did support that motion
Back to Top
Spartakus View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
terörist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489 		  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2007 at 04:58
You cannot know that whether there were people in the goverment who actually support the action of those paramilitaries. Of course the goverment was aware ,to a degree, of what was going on. Everybody was because it was their duty to do so.That's sth very usual in politics.
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
Back to Top
konstantinius View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 22-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 762 		  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2007 at 16:04
Originally posted by Penelope

Not to interupt the discussion at hand, but i would just like to ask if any of you were actually born in Yugoslavia, becuase i was born there, to Greek parents.


What part of Yugoslavia, penelope?
" I do disagree with what you say but I'll defend to my death your right to do so."
Back to Top
konstantinius View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 22-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 762 		  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2007 at 16:15
Originally posted by Cezar

Originally posted by konstantinius

I think the Bosnians received an unfair deal of retribution, especially since they were "sandwiched" between the Croatian and Serb interests. 
 
Don't mistake me for quoting you Konstantinius but there are somethings I would really like for our friends from former Yougoslavia to clarify:
  1. When speaking of "interests", of whatever side of the conflict, is it about what kind of interests? I mean, does a Serb from Bosnia has the same "interests" as a Serb from Croatia and, of course, a Serb from Serbia? Or does a Croat and a Serb/Bosniak, etc. living next door have so different "interests" that it becomes absolutely necessary to draw a border between them in order to stop them for killing eachother?
  2. Wasn't it better when Yougoslavia was a whole?
  3. What do you feel is better: to be a small/tiny/puny/insignificant/ ethnic or cultural monolithical entity or part of a respected multinational state? (Please don't consider this as being offensive. I just can't compare the respect towards Yougoslavia with the respect towards BH, for example. The question is merely intended to highlight the fact that to what Yougoslavia was the current array of states that "gained their independency" are almost insignificant, maybe except Serbia, Croatia and Slovenia which might be considered somehow significant. I mean Yougoslavia really had a word to say, what's left of her is just a loud noise. Sorry for being so rude)


1."Interests" are usually associated with territory based on ethnic make-up of said territory. The Serbs, i.e. tried to link up all Serb enclaves in Bosnia claiming in the process something like 45% of BH. This doesn't nesseccarily involve civilians who sometimes continue their everyday lives in peace with each other. But when one or the other paramilitary come through, evryone is forced to choose sides.
2. In my oppinion, absolutely yes.
3. I gravitate towards large, centralized states not ethnic "mosaics". I don't think you're being rude at all, you've brought up a valid point. I hope I'm proved wrong, but the Balkans in 20 years will be in a sad shape if this process of fragmentation continues.
" I do disagree with what you say but I'll defend to my death your right to do so."
Back to Top
Cezar View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 09-Nov-2005
Location: Romania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1211 		  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2007 at 02:52

Es_bih, you said to be born in YU. You are not living in the wreck of her, you are living in the US. It's easy for you to speak about what the "interests" of the inhabitants were, of the bad things that were happening during the communists, and of the good things that will happen to the new states once they manage to get to normality (which is unlikely, IMHO).

The only thing that matters I guess, is that instead of being able to avoid violence, the people of former YU fell prey to a bad leadership that eventually got them into a position of distrust from the other nations of Europe.
Shortly after the fall of Ceausescu there were some riots here (I mean Tg. Mures), confrontations between Magyars and Romanians. The purpose might have been to start an ethnic conflict. WE (Magyars and Romanians) didn't let it happen. Even more, after that there were never again violences (except in the politicians quarrels).
THEY (people of the YU) ... weren't able to talk to eachother instead of fighting/killing?!?!
Extremist groups are everywhere around the world and in Europe. Blood was spilled on a huge scale only in YU.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2007 at 03:17
Originally posted by Cezar

Es_bih, you said to be born in YU. You are not living in the wreck of her, you are living in the US. It's easy for you to speak about what the "interests" of the inhabitants were, of the bad things that were happening during the communists, and of the good things that will happen to the new states once they manage to get to normality (which is unlikely, IMHO).

The only thing that matters I guess, is that instead of being able to avoid violence, the people of former YU fell prey to a bad leadership that eventually got them into a position of distrust from the other nations of Europe.
Shortly after the fall of Ceausescu there were some riots here (I mean Tg. Mures), confrontations between Magyars and Romanians. The purpose might have been to start an ethnic conflict. WE (Magyars and Romanians) didn't let it happen. Even more, after that there were never again violences (except in the politicians quarrels).
THEY (people of the YU) ... weren't able to talk to eachother instead of fighting/killing?!?!
Extremist groups are everywhere around the world and in Europe. Blood was spilled on a huge scale only in YU.
 
 
I lived through about the entire war. I think I know full well about the war, and what happened, I do not need an outside lecutre on it. I outlined a neutral stance on the whole Yugoslavian crisis.
Back to Top
Cezar View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 09-Nov-2005
Location: Romania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1211 		  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2007 at 07:39
You lived through the entire war? Where?
Being there doesn't make you a neutral, on the contrary.
And I'm not lecturing you, I only highlight the fact that you people were not able to solve your problems without the cost of way too many lives.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 345

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.