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hugoestr
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Topic: Is history made by individuals? Posted: 31-May-2007 at 14:12 |
Is history made by individuals who can make or break historical events?
In a more speculative manner, would we prevent the rise of Nazi Germany if we could go back to 1918 and kill Hitler?
Or would a fascist dictatorship rise in any case, but the specifics in history would be different?
Those with subtle minds will see how the answer to this question has a lot to do on how to do history. :)
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benzs_s
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Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 10:11 |
In the specific case of inter-war Germany, it is likely that somebody would have taken Hitler's place, or that a less assertive man would have been out-manouevred by the communist movement.
Individuals sure can shape history, but only because the actions they take can change from ripples to waves over time. The fact of the matter is that history is created by PEOPLE, in any case, and context has to be considered (as the above example shows).
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hugoestr
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Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 22:57 |
First of all, welcome!
Context is a variable that I had not thought about. So it seems that under some situations killing a key historical figure would have changed history, but in others nothing would have happened.
For some reason I am now thinking about the case of Lenin and the Soviet Revolution. Would killing Lenin change world history? Probably not. There were many competent leaders among the communists.
Back to the case of Hitler, it seems that you are saying that some kind of a dictatorship would have been established, but it could have been communist. Would a communist dictatorship also go to war?
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TheDiplomat
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Posted: 10-Jun-2007 at 09:28 |
Hugo,
History does not take place in vacuum ;)
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ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!
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hugoestr
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Posted: 11-Jun-2007 at 09:08 |
So, Arda, what is your position on this? :)
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kasper
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Posted: 11-Jun-2007 at 23:35 |
There is a very interesting book by Jose Saramago called The History of the Siege of Lisbon that's more or less about what you posted. I would suggest reading it, I really enjoyed it. Here is the review off of Amazon.
Originally posted by Amazon.com
"If proofreaders were given their freedom and did not have their hands and feet tied by a mass of prohibitions more binding than the penal code, they would soon transform the face of the world, establish the kingdom of universal happiness, giving drink to the thirsty, food to the famished, peace to those who live in turmoil, joy to the sorrowful ... for they would be able to do all these things simply by changing the words ..." The power of the word is evident in Portuguese author Jos Saramago's novel, The History of the Siege of Lisbon. His protagonist, a proofreader named Raimundo Silva, adds a key word to a history of Portugal and thus rewrites not only the past, but also his own life.
Brilliantly translated from the Portuguese by Giovanni Pontiero, The History of the Siege of Lisbon is a meditation on the differences between historiography, historical fiction, and "stories inserted into history." The novel is really two stories in one: the reimagined history of the 1147 siege of Lisbon that Raimundo feels compelled to write and the story of Raimundo's life, including his unexpected love affair with the editor, Maria Sara. In Saramago's masterful hands, the strands of this complex tale weave together to create a satisfying whole. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title. |
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hugoestr
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Posted: 12-Jun-2007 at 11:17 |
Thanks, Kasper, I will look for it.
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elenos
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Posted: 23-Jun-2007 at 20:39 |
There is no
doubt that history happens, the trick is to record what happened, how it
happened, the personalities involved and what can be learned, but there are
many pitfalls along the way.
For
instance some (like Paul McCarthy) say all vegetarians are non-violent Hitler
was a vegetarian so in the light of that dietary evidence could we turn around
and say all vegetarians are sinister? Would world history be different had he
eaten more meat instead of vegetables as a child? Hitler bad, Ghandi good, but
both were connected by being vegetarians? What a trivial puzzle!
Much of
history is written and then rewritten to suit the ruling culture and community
standards of the age. It amuses me to pick up a book that says, The History of
the World as if all major events of history could be written in one book! Some
brilliant condensations seem to sum up the whole of a war or mass social
movement into one paragraph or sweeping statement, but the devil is in the
detail. Once you take the time to learn the fuller story your eyes are opened
to more about life and the way people live it.
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elenos
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Aster Thrax Eupator
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Posted: 01-Aug-2007 at 17:33 |
History being made by individuals? That's a bit of a Romantic 19th century view - history is not made by individuals, but by a large group of them (a race, political group, religious group or some other collecton of people) who set the stage for people like Hannibal and Napoleon to march on. Hannibal didn't make the entire situation of war with Rome - he was merley a part of something much larger. Napoleon didn't make and break the French republic/empire - his rise was a product of the centuries of oppression that the French suffered under borbons
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Riruik
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Posted: 09-Aug-2007 at 17:32 |
History is made by the winners
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hugoestr
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Posted: 09-Aug-2007 at 18:22 |
Originally posted by Riruik
History is made by the winners |
Or the sore losers, who can't let go
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omshanti
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Posted: 09-Aug-2007 at 19:56 |
I think there is a difference between ''history'' as in events that did really happen or the true nature of them, and ''history'' as in "'set of lies agreed upon'' (Napoleon).
In the latter case, ''History'' is definitely written from the perspective, imagination, desire of winners, or certain individuals who happened to be the ones to record the events or powerfull enough.
But I guess Hugoestr meant the former version of ''history''.
I do think that history is made by individuals, not only by certain individuals, but by every single individual. In my opinion, if you take out even the most seemingly insignificant and unknown person or a being , the course of history would change, because I think that history is a huge mechanism every single part of which depend on one another. We are all living in a big interrelated web.
Edited by omshanti - 10-Aug-2007 at 01:40
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