Your suggestions for my map of the Mongol

I made this map about 4 years ago for AE's article on the Mongol Empire. I think it should be updated soon.

http://www.allempires.com/empires/mongol/mongolempire_map. jpg

Any suggestions for the map, including any errors that you see?

You're also welcomed to critique the article for any errors etc.
http://www.allempires.com/article/index.php?q=The_Mongol_Emp ire

Actually, the gray areas show incursions rather than vassals.

Is it more appropriate to have the Golden Horde altogether as one or was it more like a collection of separate states?

Some thoughts..

#1 the sub map on "division of Ulus"  North China, Manchuria, Tibet, Khurristan, Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan were not part of the split.  The Jin and Khwarizam empires were  under control of appointed generals and the princes were each granted several estates etc in each.  The Ulus were restricted to the steppes.

#2 A sub map on Quaidu's "empire" might be interesting, it was larger, longer lasting and far more significant than Ariq-Boke's.

That said, good effort.  most impressive.

i didn't meant vassals when i said tributary...well, the Golden Horde was restricted to the Steppe proper more or less (former Kypchak and Volga Bulgar territories), most Russian principalities survived as vassals ruled by princes appointed by the Khan. I think Novgorod was not directly ruled, just a tributary state.

I thought you were implying that the Golden Horde is better represented in the individual states that made up the Horde (the White horde, blue horde, Nogai, etc).

Tom,

Actually, those mini-maps were done entirely by guesswork. Since I do not have any data on the specific boundaries, they will probably be removed.




Edited by Imperator Invictus

I think its pretty clear that the Nogai shouldn't be a seaparate identity, as they were more of a vassal, and the Crimean is way off the timeline. But isn't the Sibir Khanate the same thing as the White Horde, or are those two just so often confused?

According to the Regnal Chornologies site, the Blue Horde and the White Horde Shared rulers. It looks like they alternated the throne:


The GOLDEN HORDE The Golden Horde was the Western division of the Mongol Empire, subject to the Great Khans at Karakorum, and ruling most of Russia.

• (Temujin Genghis Khan.............................1206-1227)
• Kok Urdu
• Batu..............................................1227-1255
• Sartaq the Christian..............................1255-1257
• Ulagchi the Child......................................1257
• Berke the Moslem..................................1257-1266
• Mangu.............................................1266-1280
• Tode Mangu........................................1280-1287
• Tole Buqa.........................................1287-1290
• Toqtagha..........................................1290-1312
• Ozbeg.............................................1312-1340
• Tini Beg...............................................1340 opposed by...
• Jani Beg I........................................1340-1356
• Berdi Beg.........................................1356-1359 opposed by...
• Qulpa.............................................1359-1360 and...
• Nauruz Beg.............................................1360
• Ak Urdu
• Hizr..............................................1360-1361
• Temur Hoja........................................1361-1362
• Kok Urdu
• Abdullah...............................................1362 d. 1370
• Ak Urdu
• Amurat............................................1362-1367
• Aziz Hoja.........................................1367-1369
• Kok Urdu
• Jani Beg II.......................................1369-1370
• Mohammed Buluq-Khan....................................1370 d. 1379
• Ak Urdu
• Tulun Beg-Khanum (fem.)............................1370-1373
• Ai Beg.................................................1373 d. 1376
• Kok Urdu
• Arab Shaykh............................................1373 d. 1379
• Ai Beg (restored) (in Sarai)......................1373-1376 with...
• Hajji Cherkes (in Sarai)..........................1375-1376
• Kok Urdu
• Ilbani (in Sarail Jedid)..........................1373-1376 with...
• Ala-Khan (in the North)...........................1373-1376
• Ak Urdu
• Kagan Beg.........................................1375-1376
• Urus-Khan.........................................1376-1378
• Kok Urdu
• Arab Shaykh (restored)(in Sarai)..................1378-1379
• Mamai Urdu
• Mamay.............................................1379-1380
• Ak Urdu

http://www.hostkingdom.net/mongols.html


Edited by Imperator Invictus

Oh right. I remember that too. I guess its logical that Shiban did have his own Khanate since he was one of the leaders of the campaign. But I actually have never seen a map of Shiban's khanate anywhere other than that site (whose drawing is pretty rough)

I think the question is, "what exactly was the Golden Horde of the 13th century?"

• Wikipedia's article claims that Berke consolidated the White and Blue Hordes. But I don't think this is correct.
  
  
• It and some other sources also claim that "Golden Horde" was never used as a term until the unified Golden Horde. However, in the accounts of John of Carpini, the latin words "Orda Aurea" do appear which mean Golden horde. However, that term only appears once.
  
  
• Still, I've also read that the Golden Horde was used as a collective term for all of the hordes.
  
  
• Then there's the "Kipchak Khanate." What exactly was the Kipchak Khante? was it the Golden Horde or the Blue horde?
  

Edited by Imperator Invictus

Originally posted by Imperator Invictus Then there's the "Kipchak Khanate." What exactly was the Kipchak Khante? was it the Golden Horde or the Blue horde?

I've heard Kypchak Khanate is equal to Ulus of Jochi, the Ulus of Jochi would be all three Khanates ruled by the sons of Jochi, so i assume Kypchak Khanate would refer to the whole area, not just the Blue horde. but maybe its just another name for the blue horde, kypchaks only ruled the area covered by the Blue Horde...

Originally posted by Temujin I've heard Kypchak Khanate is equal to Ulus of Jochi, the Ulus of Jochi would be all three Khanates ruled by the sons of Jochi, so i assume Kypchak Khanate would refer to the whole area, not just the Blue horde. but maybe its just another name for the blue horde, kypchaks only ruled the area covered by the Blue Horde...

Doesn't Kypchak mean "Golden"? The confusion as far as I know stems from the usage of Kypchak for the area around Kazakhstan which also is called the Kypchak steppe, which was under the Blue Horde. Also there are vassal connections between the different hordes, some take suzerainity to mean actual control and others independence.