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Zagros
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Topic: Israel vs Lebanon, the sequel Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 18:42 |
^ here here.
France and Britian are to blame more than anyone for Israel's power over the rest of the region.
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completely true, but to say the US, if it has the will to, can't curb ISraeli melevolance is hogwash. Truth is, Israel is the cornerstone of American foreign policy in the ME (thanks to its lobbies) and as such has free reign to do as it pleases to whomever int he region. This statement is backed by recent Harvard research on the subject, the bottom line of which was that ISrael has an unhealthy influence over US policy, something that was blatantly obvious to anyone with any common sense before anyway.
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Illuminati
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 19:12 |
Originally posted by Zagros
^ here here.
France and Britian are to blame more than anyone for Israel's power over the rest of the region.
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completely true, but to say the US, if it has the will to, can't curb ISraeli melevolance is hogwash. Truth is, Israel is the cornerstone of American foreign policy in the ME (thanks to its lobbies) and as such has free reign to do as it pleases to whomever int he region. This statement is backed by recent Harvard research on the subject, the bottom line of which was that ISrael has an unhealthy influence over US policy, something that was blatantly obvious to anyone with any common sense before anyway. |
Agreed. The Jewish lobby in the US is disturbingly powerful. No lobby, no matter their politcal platform, should be that powerful. Bush, will have to act sooner or later. He si already feuding with Rice. Rice thinks Israel has gone too far, and Bush obviously believes they have the right to defend themselves. Oil his $77/barrel USD, and Bush will have to eventually act if the price of oil continues to rise. I was also watching the news and it appears there will undoubtedly be a regional war. Hamas and the Palestinians are in love with Hezbollah right now. We could see start seeing unprecedented cooperation between the Arab militant groups. I think the most important thing in this whole issue is that the US is not drawn into the conflict. I have no faith in the Bush administration, and I am concerned he'll get the US invovled directly. Because if that happens, then no one in the world will have the power to reign in israel is things get too out of control
Edited by Illuminati - 14-Jul-2006 at 19:17
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docyabut
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 19:39 |
America supports democracy,Israel is a democracy. If people want to vote for a certain groups that only has one belief then thats want one gets. I really can see how hard it is for a nation wheater it be a the iraqie, israel or a future palistine state to get to a democracy thats for all of its people, when it would be be for only for one group of people.Its like the Israeli minsiter said to the lebaon misinter at the UN I know you`d be sitting right next to me in support aganist the attack on us and in your quest for your own democracy.Isreal as a state was attacked by a group and it has a right to defend itself.
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pikeshot1600
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 20:16 |
Originally posted by malizai_
Originally posted by pikeshot1600
Well, if you "wouldnt expect nothing less." I imagine the F.O. won't be interested.
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It wasnt the FO that vetoed, it was mr Bolton. And stop trying to personalise the issue. So spare us the BS, since you r going to need to with justifications like the one given below.
Originally posted by pikeshot1600
the fact that Geo Bush can't stop Israel's actions
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Just like a wolf can not keep its teeth from bititng.
US should learn to keep its d*g on a leash and muzzled.
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Another example of "selective comment" outside of context.
I am becoming more convinced that AE is as futile an exercise as the UN.
What pisses you guys off more than anything is you know I am right.
Edited by pikeshot1600 - 14-Jul-2006 at 20:21
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Illuminati
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 20:21 |
and about the US veto'ng a UN resolution....
what about the UN resolution that called for Israeli withdrawal from lebanon and in return ordered lebanon to secure the Israeli-Lebanon border and stop hezbollah from attacking israel?
How can anyone demand a new UN resolution when Israel is the only one abiding by the last resolution? Those kind of one-sided and arrogant demands are one of the reasons the UN doesn't have much legitimacy. If you believe in the power of the UN then stand by previous resolutions and demand the disarmament of Hezbollah and demand Lebanon secure it's own borders.
Edited by Illuminati - 14-Jul-2006 at 20:25
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pikeshot1600
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 20:23 |
Originally posted by Illuminati
and about the US veto'ng a UN resolution....
what about the UN resolution that called for Israeli withdrawal from lebanon and in return ordered lebanon to secure the Israeli-Lebanon border and stop hezbollah from attacking israel?
How can anyone demand a new UN resolution when Israel is the only one abiding by the last resolution? Those kind of one-sided and arrogant demands are one of the reasons the UN doesn't have much legitimacy.
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As we have seen more than enough times, UN resolutions are suitable for wrapping fish.
No one pays the slightest attention to them.
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pikeshot1600
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 20:35 |
Originally posted by Mortaza
If rocket attacks by these groups endanger Israeli safety, and Israeli soldiers are attacked, Israel responds.
attacking civil targets is not just responding.
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Sure it is. Got your attention didn't it?
It better get Hamas's and Hezbollah's attention as well. Iran is not the only entity on Earth that can unleash things. The oozing canker that is Iran is what is bringing about the current problem, and, only when Palestinians and Lebanese realize that, will they realize that their "heros" are nothing but gang bangers living off foreign blood money. Maybe they will get the hint; maybe not.
A lot of people are really getting bored with this. Ultimately, who else cares anymore? The UN?
Edited by pikeshot1600 - 14-Jul-2006 at 20:41
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Gundamor
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 21:00 |
Pike, You talk like you work for the Center of Stratgic and International Affairs in Washington. You definitaly dont have the alarmist attitude and look at the big picture hah. Do you think Iran will be nuclear capable by the end of the year?
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"An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind"
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pikeshot1600
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 21:10 |
Originally posted by Gundamor
Pike, You talk like you work for the Center of Stratgic and International Affairs in Washington. You definitaly dont have the alarmist attitude and look at the big picture hah. Do you think Iran will be nuclear capable by the end of the year? |
Who knows? Having a nuke and delivering it are different.
My thinking is having A nuke just makes you a target. The regime in Iran is just trying all delaying tactics to try to present the West (US) and neighboring states with the fait accompli of their having some capability. They do a good job of turning US support for Israel into a PR triumph.
Jews, as we know, have historically been convenient targets. It was easier of course when they could not shoot back. Different now.
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Ponce de Leon
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Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 00:28 |
Basically Hezbollah started poking its stick in the hornets, nest..and the hornets responded!!
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ArmenianSurvival
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Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 00:36 |
Ya but they stung the wrong person, and way too
many times. They are weakening a government who would love to have
Hezbollah out of their country, but cannot do so on their own because of the political
backlash it would cause (potential civil war). They want to spread
democracy on behalf of the U.S., and they are bombing the Middle East's
oldest democracy....
Edited by ArmenianSurvival - 15-Jul-2006 at 00:37
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Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance
Քիչ ենք բայց Հայ ենք։
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azimuth
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Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 04:14 |
Originally posted by Komnenos
Originally posted by azimuth
if it wants peace it should FIRST end its occupation and leave TOTALLY from the Arabic lands,
after doing that it should compensate its victims for the Crimes it committed against them for more than 50 years.
then we would think that its looking for peace.
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Sure, and at the same time should the entire Arab and Islamic world acknowledge the right of Israel and its people to exist. |
Arab and Islamic countries DO acknowledge Israel right to exist ( although i think it doesnt have the right to exists as it does now).
so they do acknowledge that long time now.
all the drama you hear in the news is about Israel occupation and humiliation of Arabs in the occupied land.
Israel not only occupy those lands but also controls EVERYTHING, from drinking water to electricity to trad to borders, that's full occupation .
any country does what Israel does should expect naturally a resistance groups, which Israel will call terrorist just because they are resisting the occupation.
again the ball is in the Israeli field, and they don't want peace.
in 1948 Arabs proposed a ONE democratic nation with all Jews, Christian and Muslims of Palestine having full equal rights. Israel refused this proposal.
few years ago Saudi Arabia proposed a peace plan that Israel withdraw from the Arab lands and Arab league will have full normal relation with Israel and end the boycott to their products and all will live in peace.
again Israel refused the peace proposal.
Israel think of itself as the strongest nation and think of itself as the only one to decided whatever it wants for its benefit only.
this zionist entity isn't interested in peace whatsoever.
Edited by azimuth - 15-Jul-2006 at 04:16
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Mortaza
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Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 04:29 |
Loknar you said this:
What I can say is this.the Palestinians need to accept a new boundary for their nation. Forget ever about getting the 1948 or pre 1967 borders, it isnt going to happen (and it shouldnt).
And this:
Now then about the Palestinianswhose fault is it for this mess they are in? Why did they attack Israel in 1948? In 1948, they got their fair portion of the land. Israel got 60% but more than half was desert (the Negev) and there was a large Arab minority living in Israels borders. If the Palestinians accepted the land division then there would be a Palestinian nation today.
If I am not wrong, you are trying to say that what happened to palestinians should be forgetten, but what palestinians did should be remembered. I cannot follow your logic.
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The Chargemaster
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Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 04:36 |
I think, that when one country(in this case - Lebanon) cannot stop the
terroristic actions of the islamic groups, located in her territory,
against her neighbours, then that is not a country, but only an area.
And because of that Israel have the right to crush the enemy located in that area with all possible millitary actions.
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Spartakus
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Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 04:36 |
Isreal as a state was attacked by a group and it has a right to defend itself.
There is a difference between attacking and defending . Israel is attaking,not defending .
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The Chargemaster
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Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 04:48 |
That is`nt an israely invasion in "the country of Lebanon", but an offensive against the area where are located the enemy forces.
Edited by The Chargemaster - 15-Jul-2006 at 04:53
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Spartakus
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Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 04:53 |
On whose f**king authority are Israelis attacking in a foreign soil?On whose f**king authority are Israelis bombarding the infrastructure of a foreign nation ? Israel does not own Lebanon.Lebanon is an independent State ,got it?
Edited by Spartakus - 15-Jul-2006 at 04:59
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The Chargemaster
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Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 05:07 |
Originally posted by Spartacus
On whose f**king authority are Israelis attacking in
a foreign soil?On whose f**king authority are Israelis bombarding the
infrastructure of a foreign nation ? Israel does not own
Lebanon.Lebanon is an independent State ,got it? |
If Israel don`t do nothing, the islamic groups will attack his territory everyday, and will kill jews everyday. Got it?
And because of that, they must be crushed with all possible ways, even they are located on the moon!
Edited by The Chargemaster - 15-Jul-2006 at 05:08
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Spartakus
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Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 05:12 |
Islamic groups are not the official goverment of Lebanon,are they? ARE THEY?
Edited by Spartakus - 15-Jul-2006 at 05:14
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The Chargemaster
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Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 05:13 |
And if Lebanon is "independent state", i can say that the terrorist islamic groups are independent too. They have`nt a ruler, except their religious leaders. If you let him, they also will use your home to attack Israel.
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